WoT E-Sports: Sliphanton opinion

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Hello,

Sliphantom, the creator of “The Unicum Guide” has created a serious video on why he thinks WoT E-Sports hasn’t yet succeeded, after 32Million dollars:

Worth a watch.

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37 comments on “WoT E-Sports: Sliphanton opinion

  1. holgerdk says:

    Its “Sliphantom” 🙂




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  2. Str0nkTenk says:

    Agree with a lot of what was said, e sports currently is about t54 lights camping for 8.5mins then a possible fight at the end…aaaand repeat. WOT has a vast array of tanks and possible tactics strategies that could be played but the tanks are too unbalanced and RNG plays too big a factor to make the game about skill.
    make a king if the hill mode where active play = a win and there will be more action and more people will stick around to watch/play.

    also make it capable for ‘normal’ players to have fun and be competitive, not just for the elite.

    one more thing. The commentators on WG e sports streams are appalling. This has to change for people to watch e sports.




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    • Rita Sobral says:

      Dammit… WordPress is arguing with me to make this comment public. Had to kick it in the nuts!




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    • venzi0 says:

      I see you never played e sports, cus its running on tier 10 for over 2 months.
      Neither the video maker. “Shutupshake told the truth, this is just some bullshit.
      Its like in cs_go you buy AWP M4 AK the most, but no one care that this weapons are more usefull than the others. Actually most of the tier 10 tanks are used in e-sports, around 70% of them, so i dont think the balance would be a problem.




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    • Anonymous says:

      “Not just for the elite”? WTF is that supposed to mean? E-Sports is all about competativeness and if you can’t keep up, you loose. What kind of silly notion is your concern then? Do you want a baby-league, where everyone with a WN8 of above 50 is not allowed into?




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  3. alangallery says:

    If everyone plays the OP tanks then gameplay will be balanced.




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  4. Jerry_at_rick says:

    Hopefully with the shake up at Minsk the greed might abate and game play can be addressed.




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  5. Colddawg says:

    I hear from livestreamers, viewers, and players that the issue they have is that the autoaim takes away a bunch of the skill and this is why it is uninteresting to watch. Even though the viewer can’t know when a player uses autoaim just knowing that it exists in WoT ESports drives people away since it’s easy to right click on someone and circle strafe them.




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    • marianr87 says:

      Don’t think that’s such a big deal. Auto aim doesn’t aim where the weak spots are and if a tank can easily be penetrated using auto aim from all sides then it could be easily penetrated without.




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      • Anonymous says:

        This also links back to how OP gold ammo is. In Esports they load 100% of it so armour is irrelevent, thus you can autoaim freely.

        I still find it absurd WG won’t just nerf the damage it deals.




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  6. Xplato says:

    he hits most of the problems on the head, like a nail. I mean look at the T18……. how many years was that a problem? farrrr to long. or look at trash tanks, I’m looking at you japanese tier 8+heavys, or the ARL V39. then we have premium shells, and premium tanks. look I understand WG like money, but if you want you competative scene to actually matter you have to stop the premium shells. you also need to take a page from Call of duty 4 pro mod/Counter strike and limit the amount of certain tanks. for instance you can only have 1 light tank, only 2 heavy, only 2 medium ETC. no one wants to watch 2 teams of T54L every game. you also need to make competative tier 10. people don’t watch competative games to see the mid tier gameplay, they watch to see the top tier they want to see the best, so get the tier 8 trash out of here, and put tier 10 into it’s place. as it is right now tier 10s are completely pointless.




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    • BrokenLoyalty says:

      It’s actually already been made teir 10 as of fall of last year, just the ingame team battles mode is teir 8. WGLNA also has a interesting rule where each team can only bring two of a paticular tank model and it looks like the grand finals in april will also use that rule.




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      • Xplato says:

        that’s good, I still thought WGLNA was the tier 8 light tank cancer it was before. but Wot Esports still suffers from the biggest fault, terrible game balance. and as long as WG refuse to balance tanks, and relese trees just for the money without careing about balance it will never be a real esports.




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  7. nytracus says:

    He didn’t call me a cheeky scrublord?

    And he’s right




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  8. marianr87 says:

    I totally agree about the balance issue. Lower tiers should be taken as seriously as high tiers when it comes to balance. Some people would enjoy playing them more if they thought they wouldn’t meet stat padders in OP tanks and also not be accused of being seal clubbers just because they enjoy lower tier tanks.
    How can so much content be considered irrelevant or throw away is beyond me. Low tiers contain a lot of important historical vehicles which are glossed over and too much focus is put on high tiered concept, paper or prototype tanks just because they look impressive and deal a lot of damage.

    Also totally agree on premium vehicle balancing. They should grit their teeth and just do it properly. How much money would they lose? In any case even if they had to refund a few million dollars’ worth now I think it would be worth it in the long run, though I very much doubt it will reach such a sum.

    I own quite a few tier 2-6 premiums and the T8 FV4202. Quite a number of the low tier premiums are almost unplayable or OP or even both depending on the matchmaking, but no middle way. Some used to be OP but became underpowered by the introduction of new tanks. Evidently a more integrated approach should be considered.




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  9. wfschepel says:

    First of, I very much doubt this guy understands what it means to balance tanks – or anything else, for that matter. Very few people seem to do, for that matter. Let’s start with defining what balance really means. Everybody out there appears to have a different understanding of balance, usually based on how well they themselves perform with or against certain tanks. This does not, in any way, constitute a proper approach to balance! WG uses a system where tanks need to perform within certain parameters. If they perform worse, they get buffed a little. They perform better, they get nerfed. There is a lot to say for this approach, but it does not take into account that the performance of tanks is highly dependant on specific circumstances. The E25 is specifically named as an overpowered vehicle. Truth is, it is largely underperforming in the current meta. (The stats are out there to prove it.) It is really bad for close quarter brawling. In the old meta, with open maps and long range sniping, it was quite good in the right hands. To confound matters further, crew skills and equipment make a huge difference. Which means, at least imho: *A game this complex can never be completely balanced.* Especially if there are different formats to consider. Take T8 CW. The T8 scouts, often mentioned as inherently pointless vehicles – which is nonsense, btw – are a weapon of choice in there because they outperform pretty much everything else in that particular format. Should WG nerf them because of that? In regular games, they are pretty much spot on. Nerf them, and they will be UP for regular play. Ceterum censeo, perfect balance is impossible.




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  10. Anonymous says:

    Screw the E-sports.




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  11. cctank1 says:

    I think that they need to focus on balance more like you stated. They positively would have people leaving the game for about a few months, then they would see an increase in players because people would start understanding that they care.

    I’m not sure about the other Servers, but for WGNA Major things need to change. The T-22 Rigging undermined my trust in this company. The clan wars seem to be improving, however; you simply can’t satisfy everyone. They should regularly talk to callers/staff of top clans they would give great incite on things that are not useful to the game, and more importantly give them hope of you caring.




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  12. gizmo11x says:

    while I agree with the problems he listed I still think you can’t have a competitive game with 3 layers of so wide ranging RNG just to determine if you hit (and for how much): +/- 25% penetration, +/- 25% damage, and the shot dispersion.




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  13. Just give a $5-$10 package where you can rent about 3-6 tanks for e-sports.

    Plus, they need a system where a team can’t always have one of every tank.




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  14. Laserguided says:

    WOT E sport demonstrated no skills. Those players use gold, OP tanks, auto-aim just like any other players in a pub match. Any decent players can pick up map knowledge like those guys.The game just does not allow skilled players to show their skills; therefore I don’t think E sport are exciting to watch at current state.

    To make things interesting, few special feature in E sport might be nice. One way to do it is to include elements from personal mission into the E sport.
    1. Points reward, or HP replenish for deflecting shots; extra points for driving lowly armored tanks. Points reward for spotting and remain undetected. etc.
    2. Random tank selections to add variety. This also rewards players with more knowledge about tanks, and show that skill trumps tank.

    I guess I want to see more special effects and top players demonstrate more skills in future E sport match. You can’t call someone a pro if he can’t demonstrate that he has more skills than an average Joe.




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    • 1n_Soviet_Russia says:

      DA FUCK YOU ON ABOUT
      Top level players use every element in their power to win, if you use gold and autoaim I want to see your tomato ass go and beat a top level team player. As a unicum I have listened to this bullshit for too damn long. You pubbies try to invalidate my skill by saying I use the same tools as everyone else, Just because you own a pair of boxing gloves does not make you motherfucking Mohamed Ali. The reason Gold is used in E-sports is to minimize the amount of RNG that this game has, a DotA player does not have to worry about abilities not flying where they are aimed, if they did you bet your ass they would be using what they can to minimize that shit. The dirty little secret is that pubbies don’t mind RNG as RNG actually helps the window-licking mouth breathers to hit impossible shots that they never could have with pinpoint accuracy. Random tanks? Are you fucking kidding me? imagine being the team that gets Leo 1s and CAX on Himmelsdorf against E3s and IS7s, the tank selection for the map is tailored to the strategy you MUPPET, strategy is a huge skill that you tomato baddies do not comprehend. Points reward for this, points reward for that, FUCK THAT, Individual play has NO place in E-sports, the only metric is winning as a team. Name a sport where a team gets points for one player doing something beneficial to the team, he is doing that to help his team WIN not get some bullshit points. Point is skilled players show their skills all the damn time, and that is to roll over your pubbie ass in randoms and tourneys.

      Rant over, so done with this bullshit….




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    • Mort says:

      I was going to respond to what you said, but I just had a brain hemorrhage from reading what you posted. So now I’m going to die alone of a stroke becausejfakld ofadsoj hfklyouoaadfjklahjk




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  15. pixywing says:

    There is another issue is that we don’t know the players. The players that do these tournaments don’t live stream themselves and thus you never get to see them like you do with League of Legends. The community of “skilled” players for World of Tanks is as well one of the most toxic communities I have seen in online gaming where they call players with less wn8 trash, yet this is stat that is gained in a causal game mode (random battles). This is equivalent to people farming win rate in un-ranked League games, Casual Mode in Hearthstone.

    When “skilled” players don’t want skilled MM it really makes you question if they are good at all. Skilled MM works just look at League of Legends with 123 champions 203 items, runes and masteries all of which need to be balanced, Counter Strike or DotA with its 100+ heroes that need to be balanced. Balancing can be done, but it would involve Wargaming to care about the game and not just about the money which I don’t see happening for a long time.

    I also use “skilled” for WN8 as the stat punishes players for playing for free, punishes players for getting more tanks, punishes players for not spending gold to get good crews, punishes players for just trying to learn the game. As well from my CW experience there is no difference between 1200 wn8 and 2400 wn8 as we have yet to lose to BUNNY.




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    • 1n_Soviet_Russia says:

      Bunny is shit, CW comes down to strats and 2450 Wn8 player cannot stop 5 200 Wn8 baddies from yoloing into his position. If you are so naive as to believe that you are being punished for buying more tanks you do not understand basic economics and you should not be playing in the first place. The reason why people don’t want skilled MM is because in LOL there is Ranked and Casuals, Random battles is Casual Team battles is Ranked. Is that really to hard to understand?




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      • pixywing says:

        If you grind a tank from stock you will do worse than a guy who farms exp on a premium spends money converting exp to play the tank maxed out from the get go and then buys a 100% crew. If you do not understand this you are very confused.

        As well World of Warships has random battles and ranked mode for single player so it is not difficult to implement when their other game already has it.




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  16. Anonymous says:

    I agree with the balancing issues but most of all that E-sports format has no relation to the game that the rest of the world plays.




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  17. Tom Johnston says:

    FIrst, it’s nice to read intelligent comments about the game, and what folks would like to see done with it.

    Second, i’m no fan if E-sports, i’ve actually watched once…briefly and not even a whole match. I moved on and that may be part of WG’s problem with it. I think connections to the game would help but on the other hand, there are ample real world competitive events where the “end game” bears little resemblence to what people do. NASCAR and F1 racing come to mind but interestingly both as removed as they are…are indisputably “balanced” in their element.

    Wargaming has a great game but they “major patch” too much with things folks aren’t asking for..and frequently reject in droves. They listen mostly it would seem to complainers and whiners and less to folks with thoughtful and evidence based commentary.

    Thank Rita…for bringing commentary like this forward!




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  18. huebi says:

    Wow, another video with useless suggestions to make e-sports a thing in WoT.

    Most people arguing here clearly have no idea about it, most likely haven’t watched it for months.

    No rational thinking person dislikes gold league matches because of tank balance. Especially not the balance of low-tier tanks and premiums. Also premium ammunition isn’t an issue when the reason of the game is to find the best way to defeat the opponent.

    While I agree that the 7/68 mode plays differently to randoms, this shouldn’t be an issue too. Every tier plays differently in WoT. If we had a pro league with 15 tier 1 vehicles it would be totally different to tier 6, 8, 10 whatever and because people use tactics they play differently to randoms in any case. But this is true for every game, No cs:go or dota pub match plays like a major just because players play the same mode. As long as you play the same maps and can reach positions the pro players use, you can learn a lot and understand what they are doing. People that don’t even understand the basics will not watch it anyway.

    People are watching these e-sport games primarily because they are already big and broadcasted well. It is like superbowl in the USA, most of the viewers watch only this game during a whole year. This doesen’t mean that it’s better or you could change rules during the season to increase the audience in a huge way. Also some games like Hearthstone are more convenient for twitch. A lot of people just watch it and chill. I sometimes run twitch for the music, but to watch e-sports I need someone to cheer for. I need teams I cross my fingers for and be disappointed when they lose. E-sports is similar to other sports and they are about entertainment and entertainment needs sypathies for the participants and if you don’t have interesting players, at least have a rivalry between nations.

    This is just my opinion, I might be wrong with it, but I think a huge problem is that a lot of people think about the best WoT players as cheaters or just think that the difference in skill to the average player isn’t big. If someone in cs:go hits every headshot it is easier to feel the skill then in WoT where people think that the game has a low skill cap and winning is mostly luck. A lot of players are in the several e-sports scenes for years and become icones. In WoT (EU) maybe 1-5k players recognise pro players, watch games and probably have a favorite team. To change this, WoT has to promote personalities stronger and emphasise on the skill these players actually have.




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    • 1n_Soviet_Russia says:

      The fact that most pubbies think that to be a top player you are a cheater and a hacker really makes it hard to watch. It would make it seem like every player in the NFL is OJ Simpson. It is such a dumb opinion, I don’t know how these people are allowed to breed.




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  19. Patata Caliente says:

    Among the players I have met there isn’t a single one who is remotely interested in WoT ESports. Would better balancing change this? As much as I agree with the guy that the balancing in WoT is barmy, I still believe that even if Wargaming bothered to try and adress this issue (which they aren’t), WoT would still not take off in ESports, for the simple reason that matches are rarely all that exciting to watch. I think the gameplay simply does not lend itself to it. Not that I am bothered. Keep on throwing your cash out of the window, Wargaming 😛




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  20. Ultrasonic2 says:

    Well tank balance is complex. They are balanced on the assumption there is 15 a side but when this number reduces it massively throws the balance off. This is not just a E sports issue it happens in low tier SH too.

    View range camo and mobility becomes far more valuable as the number of tanks reduces.

    The other problem with balance for 15 a side matches is that a tank is balanced based on average player skill not on the merits of the tank it’s self.

    This leads to some tanks that are awesome and OP in a good players hands but rubbish in a poor players hands. This is considered balanced. Now all the good players will take this tank. into battle




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  21. zeroyuki92 says:

    Execution >> Concept. Balance is an important concern indeed, but it is not directly relevant to ESports.

    The main problem with ESports for me is that WG made a very poor early steps. Remember “Type 59 Code” debacles? I have watched WGL past it, and there was a problem with monotone lineup. Haven’t watched the current tier X setup simply because my past experience is just not that good.

    ESport is entertainment show, so treat it as one. Make the tournament more personal (make small scale casual tourney with very minimum requirement and commitment, relate it to WGL somehow.), recruit popular guy in WoT community to the event (popular livestreamer as commentator should boost viewership and would be much better than commentator which lack knowledge about WoT), make a better marketing (guessing the 1st-8th winner is stupid since most ppl don’t even know about most of the teams). Region based “nationalism” event/promotion is a decent past example.




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