A look at the potential swiss medium tank line

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Hello everyone,

a while back i have talked about the swiss light tank line from tier 1 to 10. Today i will be talking about the Medium Tanks.

And something i want to tell in advance. I am not working for WG, nor have i any power in deciding what they do, same goes for every RsR author and Historian doing Q&As on this blog. So if you have a problem with either WG or how WG develops their game, please vent your anger on the Forums instead of here, it’s much more useful over there as barely anyone from WG reads the comments here.

With that being said, let’s get on with the Medium Tanks.

Tier 5: Panzerkanone 2

Panzerkanone II

It is a Medium tank based on the chassis on the NK II. It would have 70-75mm Of frontal armor with a top speed of 50 km/h  While there wasn’t a blueprint on this vehicle per se there was however a very strong suggestion in the Shape of a Turret Drawing part of the NK I and II development.7.5cm Turm model

Said turret has already been covered on my article about the Light tanks on the chassis of Panzer 39/ NK I.

Panzer 39-75

While this vehicle isn’t necessary, it would be a nice addition to the Tier 5 medium Tank club in which at least one tank on each nation is represented.

Tier 6: Laupen 14t or 16t

These Tanks have been covered before on this blog, link to the article is here (and an even older one here

To put it simply, Laupen 16t is originally a light tank on the chassis of the G-13 while Laupen 14t had a completely new hull, suspension and Tracks. Reason why i won’t make them light tanks is due to their armament, armor and mobility. Since both have around the same nominal thickness (same as Hetzers upper plate), one having thicker plates than the other and while the other has a better slope, it would still be better than most tier 6 mediums. In addition they have a 90mm gun which would make it similar to Skoda T40 or VK 30.01 (P). Also their mobility would be bad for a proper light tank with only having a top speed of 40-45 km/h.

laupen-14tlaupen-16t

Tier 7: KW 30/52

This Tank was by far the hardest vehicle to get any proper information for. However i have found enough material to finally complete the tank and to even get a custom Drawing made for it. There also is an earlier post on RsR so go check it out here. However to put things simple: It basically is a T20, practically no armor (70mm frontally at most, 45mm side), and a good gun, Mobility varies from document to document, while documents from 1952 say that it would go 60 km/h, however documents from 1953 say it goes 45 km/h, so WG actually have some room to balance if the rest of the tank turns out to be to good or to bad.

KW30

Image courtesy of blockhaj

Tier 8: KW 30/57

This is the Real Panzer 58 first prototype, unlike the Panzer 58 Mutz, which is very unhistorical as it has not only the wrong model for the Tank, but also they couldn’t get the 90mm gun right.

What they also could have done is simply give it the 20 pdr gun, less work and the extra penetration would have been welcomed.

The Armor of the ingame Panzer 58 is also very wrong as the gun mantle should have been 130mm at the thinnest part and 200mm at it’s thickest part. Not to mention the fact that the turret roof would be around twice as thick for the most part and the Turret front should have a much larger 120mm area than it currently has. Those points and the fact that KW 30/57 has sideskirts would make it much more durable than the Fake Panzer 58 in game.

Tier 9: Panzer 61

ve_mbt_pz61_v1

Nothing Special about this vehicle. It is the first ever mass produced Tank in Switzerland. It’s similar to KW 30/57 and Panzer 58, however it has a different turret and exhaust system It’s also faster (55 km/h) since it has a bigger Engine.

Tier 10: Panzer 68

6e2i6vy

It it’s essence it is a Panzer 61 with an even bigger engine and rubber pads on it’s tracks. Look at it like with the AMX 30 and 30b, however this time it’s an actual upgrade rather than mobility going down for the sake of firepower.

Secondary Tier 9 and 10 Meds

Similar to the Soviet tree or french tree, there are multiple options for tier 9 and 10 tanks, here are 2 additional and completely optional tier 9 and 10 lines.

Tier 9: Panzer 58 MBX (optional second tier 9 medium)

Pz.58 versuchtsfahrzeug

Panzer 58 with a MBX 833 RA-500 V6 750hp engine and the Renk transmission giving it a top speed of 70 km/h. The higher engine deck means that there would be no gun depression towards the rear.

panzer-74-hull

Illustration by David Bocquelet

Tier 10: Panzer 68 Lamborghini (optional second tier 10 medium)

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Rear turreted Panzer 68 with increased protection and bad gun depression towards the front. It got the name “Lamborghini” due to its sleek shape.

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Tier 9: Panzer 55/60 Diesel (optional third tier 9 medium)

centbanner3

Centurion Tanks with a 720 hp Diesel Engine.

Tier 10: Panzer 57/60 MTU (Optional third tier 10 medium)

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

Late Centurion with a 750-1100hp MTU MB 837 Diesel Engine and the Renk Transmission, It could go 10 km/h faster than the Normal Centurion so historically 45 km/h instead of 35 km/h, so translated to the Centurions in WoT, the Panzer 57/60 MTU would have a top speed of 60-65 km/h in game. If WG wants to make it even more different to the already IG vehicles they could add a special turret. which was used for the Centurion bunkers in switzerland.

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And that was it for today, i hope you liked the insight in the medium tank line. Next time i’ll be covering the Heavy tank line.

Let me know what you thought in the comment section.

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46 comments on “A look at the potential swiss medium tank line

  1. leggasiini says:

    Very cool designs 😀

    I definitely support the addition of Swiss tech tree. Probably the most “unique” nation left that still hasnt been implemented.




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  2. Howie says:

    they are gonna need a med line, or no reason to buy the prem swede med…. nice job man
    Howie_Eye




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  3. DeadArashi says:

    very interesting. Can’t say I know much about Swiss tanks. Is there anything to give a good, solid HT or TD line for them?




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    • The_Right_Arm says:

      If I remember correctly, the Swiss also had a pretty epic looking TD line. Most if not all had turrets from what I can remember, and had strong guns with good gun depression. Can’t remember if they had heavies or not.




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      • Mizutayio says:

        The swiss TD line has a mix of Turrets and casemate also the guns were pretty average.




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      • DeadArashi says:

        thanks for the info, will have to hunt around for info on them




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      • armando30 says:

        regarding swiss TDs, I odly seem to remember either Mizutayo, Volketten or some other author on this saying the AMX-13 (Panzer 51) was more of a TD in swiss service than a LT, would you see it as potential low-mid/mid-tier premium TD (since it would play differently from the current LT) or not have it at all?




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      • Mizutayio says:

        @ARMANDO30 the AMX 13 ( Panzer 51) would be a premium light tank in the tree, it’s the only high tier crew trainers switzerland could get.




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  4. Amon Ahamov says:

    any chance the lamborhini might go as a heavy? it somewhat looks like one and the idea of improved protection goes that way. but one tank alone makes no full line, so is there anything more alike?




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    • Mizutayio says:

      I’d like the keep the Lamborghini as an optional tank as i don’t know when it was designed. And yes, while it would be a neat heavy tank in theory, in practice, i have no idea what it’s real armor values are, so i just would keep the turret armor same as currently in game. But do not worry, the heavy line has something much more suited. And it goes from tier 7 to 10, or 8-10 if WG doesn’t want to give switzerland a premium Tiger II as a crew trainer.




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    • armando30 says:

      “Tier 10: Panzer 68 Lamborghini (optional second tier 10 medium)”
      knowing WG they would ignore some real TDs and make this one medium into a high tier TD




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  5. Ulysses says:

    I, personally, do not care what tanks WG add to the game. I welcome all new content, even if they are clones. These arent clones. These look fun. There is also a huge possibility that WG is infact working on Swiss tanks since they have stated that they are looking to implement several new nations. Good job friend.




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  6. Nevermind says:

    I seems like it would be a fun line up.




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  7. tier 10 Centurion 7/1 with 65km/h top speed and buffed rof anybody?




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  8. Swiss cheese says:

    As a swiss, i want them all but….. o boy; the tier 10; panzer 68 looks so sexy!!!




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  9. PUNISHER989 says:

    Love how it looks. I’m going to post this on the Forums and see what they say.




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  10. ndiver says:

    By curiosity, where would the Laupen 30t fit?
    I find for the tree the Laupen 16t more interesting, as it derives from the Hetzer. Wouldn’t it be possible to consider the Laupen 16t as a medium and the 14t as a light? (Potentially higher tier to not have problems with the guns)




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    • ndiver says:

      And again, nice article, and interesting discoveries 🙂 I like the Panzer 68 Lamborghini, and the congruence of the whole branch, well designed.




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    • Mizutayio says:

      the “Laupen 30t” isn’t part of the laupen project, it’s a different project and essentially the first KW 30 design.




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  11. hemihaynes says:

    Good read on both light and medium articles. Would really love to see this as a flushed out tree. But I kinda see the smaller trees get more lines before adding another nation. Japanese TDs or braking the Swedish line up more, if its possible.




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  12. StyleZ says:

    Great stuff!
    Why are WG still considering to implement Polish and Italian tanks with a lot of missing or copy/paste stuff before Swiss ones? We can clearly see that there are at least two full branches of interesting non-copy/paste vehicles already available. And a light tank branch, which is a lot cooler than the standard med only or med-td branches.




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    • MadMax says:

      Sadly because WG in it’s superficial way of doing business think that adding polish tanks will grow revenues more than adding this beautiful unique tree




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      • Mizutayio says:

        Reasons to add the Swiss tree:
        – Unique Tanks
        -No copypaste (aside from the Panzer 39, but even that had enough indigenous modifications to make it a different tank)
        -No made up tanks

        Reasons to add Polish tree:
        -Stronk tier 10 Sci Fi Heavy
        -Tier 6 and up are all copypaste from the Soviet/ Czech tree
        – There are a LOT of polish people

        What? people want Unique and real tanks? Nah sorry, gotta fill our wallets first from a bunch of patriotic people.
        ( I apologize if that insulted anyone, please don’t take it seriously dear Polish people 😀 )




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      • armando30 says:

        @Mizutayo is there really reasons to believe the Czolg Pancernik is fake?
        I thought it was said to be a concept from a polish scifi author sent to the soviet army




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      • ndiver says:

        @Armando30 : not a fake, just an unrealistic design by a sci-fi author that never worked on tanks. That’s as realistic as a Baneblade from Warhammer 40k.




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      • armando30 says:

        it might be unrealistic from a strict perspective BUT if the work is done correctly they could reproduce a really close estimate of how it would become if actually was developed
        of course the italian and swiss trees should come first since actual vehicles have more interest, but these concepts and “rough” designs also deserve attention
        by “rough designs I meant things like the american “Semi-trailer Super Heavy Tank” which was turned into mockup with some components specified for it but never went further (in a similar case the quad-track medium/MBT)




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  13. blockhaj says:

    Yay my pic is in here!
    b5b525642d31fc32571618da55f973e5/tenor.gif




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  14. ONE MAN ARMY says:

    The rear turret panzer 68 just like Merkava

    And what is the relationship between this special turret of centurion and Olifant?http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/South_Africa/photos/South_African_Olifant_tank_2011.jpg




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  15. Konstantin says:

    I think it’s better to do so:
    6 – Laupen 14t
    7 – Laupen 16t
    8 – KW 30
    9 – Panzer 61(in stock Panzer 58)
    10 – Panzer 68
    KW 30 is very strong by tier 7.




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    • blockhaj says:

      The KW.30 is just barely stronger than a t34-85 or panther. Also there are several veriants of the KW.30. One will probably be a heavy tank in the heavy tank line for ex sincebit has thick frontal armor and a pike nose. And the laupen tanks are way to light and have way to little armor to be meds. There are other projects that can take their place.




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    • Mizutayio says:

      If KW 30 turns out to be to strong then it could get the 45 km/h top speed. After that, all it would have going for it would be a good gun and meh mobility.




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  16. Bricktop says:

    Omg I want that pz68 all over my body :3
    On the serious note, looks amazing. Also, I didn’t know mutz is fake. I guess they were afraid to give a tier 8 med real armor because of warm coloured is6 drivers backslash




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    • Mizutayio says:

      Well to Wargamings defense, they had noone checking the archives, so what they probably did was take measurements of the armor and scan the whole tank and just give it the 90mm gun.
      Before i started research there was very little known about Panzer 58 and it’s predecessors.
      Measurements of the Armor with a scanner can be somewhat inaccurate if you don’t do it properly. And i just happened to have a graphic showing the whole armor layout.
      What i didn’t mention is that the hull front itself is kinda of a mix between to good and to weak.




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  17. ndiver says:

    Other questions:
    – would it be possible to have the Laupen 16t as a medium, and the Laupen 14t as a high tier light tank (an equivalent to the LTTB or M41 Bulldog) ? Or the opposite ?
    – any news from the KW 40 ? (as starter from the heavy branch?)
    – would you consider in a tree an interbranch link like G-13 -> Laupen 16t?
    – would you make the secondary branches starting from the tier 8 or from the tier 9?




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    • Mizutayio says:

      I may be doing a QnA soon again myself, so i’ll won’t be answering it quite yet. However i may be posting about KW 40 today 😉




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      • PUNISHER989 says:

        Well I have a Question you can be ready for in your Q&A, Will they bring a Swiss Premium out before the Swiss tech tree. That being asked, what tank would be a worthy premium to give a taste of whats to come?




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