Swiss TD proposal reshuffle and SPG line

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I’m back at it again. This time i’ll be covering at a small reshuffle of the TD proposal and the SPG line.

Again let me know what you think.

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Some people in the last article mentioned that the TD line from tier 7 and up doesn’t make sense ( NK II -> MOWAG Skorpion –> MOWAG HM-13 Gepard)

That’s why i decided to slightly reshuffle the high tier TDs for them to make sense and also make them more playable. I only want to suggest tech trees to Wargaming which do make sense and are fun to play.

Tier 7: MOWAG Skorpion

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This time the MOWAG Skorpion is going to be the bridge from the light tank line to the TD line as it’s only researchable mid-hightier turreted TD now.

Tier 7: Nahkampfkanone II B

This is still in the same spot as it always was.

Tier 8: MOWAG HM-3 Gepard

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Downtiered, it would keep the 105mm L7.

Tier 9: Kanonenjagdpanzer Ruf

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Kanonenjagdpanzer version designed by MOWAG engineer Walter Ruf. It’s more or less the same as tier 8, aside from the fact that it does have two drivers, one in the front and one in the rear. It had the intention to drive backwards just as fast as it could forwards. And while it was a designfor the 90mm Kanonenjagdpanzer, considering that this is from one of MOWAGs engineers, it’s safe to assume that this veihlce could also mount a 105mm L7 gun if it was ever built.

Tier 10: MOWAG Taifun

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Same as yesterday.

Tier 8 premium TD: AMX 13 mit 10.5 cm Panzerkanone 61

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Turned into a premium tier 8.

Also the Meili WT was removed

 

SPGs

Tier 4: Nahkampfkanone I Ausf. 2

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10.5cm Hb.35 L/42 SPG project on the NK I. While Ausf. 1 being the TD version with a closed gun encasement and the Ausf. 2 being the open topped artillery version. built in 1946. never entered mass production.

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Tier 5: 10.5 cm Pzhb. auf G-13

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After the war Switzerland planned to built a 10.5 cm SPG project on the chassis of the G-13. Most armor would have been removed in the process.

 

Tier 6: 10.5 cm Selbstfahrhaubitze AMX 13

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Built in france, 4 prototype vehicles were bought for testing in 1959. Tests were discontinued in 1964 and the vehicles never saw mass production. This is a would be a turreted SPG.

 

Tier 7: 15cm Selbstfahrkanone Panzer 51

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Similar to the French tier 6 SPG. This one on the chassis of the Panzer 51. Never built.

 

Tier 8: Panzerhaubitze 66

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This first M109 SPGs for the swiss army in 1966. Later upgraded to Panzerhaubitze 66/74.

 

Tier 9: 15cm Haubitze 42/46 auf Panzer 58

Initial project of the Panzerkanone 68. The idea was to take a Panzer 58 chassis and moutn a 15cm Kanone 42/46 in a turret; never built. while no blueprints existed, it could have looked like a Panzerkanone 68 turret mounted on a Panzer 58 chassis with a shorter gun than the Panzerkanone 68.

 

Tier 10: Panzerkanone 68

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SPG project from 1968/ 1969 on the chassis of a Panzer 68 ( earlier prototypes were on the Panzer 61 chassis.)

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( I’ll try my best that WG won’t add it with an autoloader)

 

That was it with the conventional tanks, i won’t be making an article about the Premium tanks, however i will make one covering a possible wheeled vehicle branch.

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35 comments on “Swiss TD proposal reshuffle and SPG line

  1. CLAYM0RE says:

    Yeah we need new artillery keep them coming




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  2. Iron_Tsunami says:

    Interesting. So the Ruf was going to be the tier VIII casemate premium? I like this setup better with just the single line I think. The AMX 13 TD makes more sense at tier VIII; was hard to imagine at tier X as a TD without the light tank camo values on the move. Would you say the crossover would go HS-30-1 –> MOWAG Skorpion –> Gepard?




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  3. IRON says:

    The way you reshuffled the TD line seems a lot more logical and consistent to me! 🙂

    The MOWAG guepard (with 105 mm L7 as top gun, for sure) deserve more the 8th tier than the 9th, the Pz. 51 mit 10.5 cm should be perfect as the tier 8 premium TD, and the Skorpion could be a pretty smart link to the TD line indeed! 😀

    But don’t you think the Taifun will be better at tier 9? At least it’s less hypothetical than the Kanonejagdpanzer Ruf mounting the 105 L7.. And at tier 9 the Taifun will get it’s legitimate 105 L7, with the option of grinding the 120 mm L11 (we should keep in mind that the tanks need modules to grind for)… Leading to the tier 10 Taifun II? Ok, as I read you, it just get a bit more armor.. But it could also have much better soft-stats than the Taifun “I”… Tell me what is your opinion on this, maybe I’m just talking shit… 😛 ahah

    And regarding the SPGs, I just find your researches and proposal amazing.. no other words. Appart the fact that it seems really realistically implementable knowing their uniqueness (turrets!) and small calibers that can’t be blamed for their alpha! 🙂




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    • Mizutayio says:

      Taifun is already a 1970s project and thus in theory to new for the game, technology wise it would fit perfectly. I mean if you want, you could give the Taifun the 152mm XM150 with the reasoning that the Panzer 74 also was considered with one. But generally the Taifun is the best choice switzerland has for a tier 10 TD, the other thing would be the Jagdpanzer 69 which would be a casemate Panzer 74, and as you might could imagine, it’s 99% guesswork. The most historical thing about that vehicle would be that it was considered at some point. And i don’t want to add a vehicle that is essentially made up.
      Also the 120mm L11 would be a really good gun, it has really good penetration ingame so it would make for a good gun for a tier 10 TD.
      I have thought really long about the high tier swiss TD situation and i always was in the opinion that the Taifun is the single best tier 10 TD option switzerland has.




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      • Iron_Tsunami says:

        Would the L11 on the Taifun have the shells like the FV215b or the Chieftain in-game? I’m thinking it would be helpful to have the extra pen of the Chieftain as a long range sniper, putting it more in line with the Swedish high tiers.




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      • IRON says:

        Ok, I understand your point of view on the Taifun II being too recent.

        Woh, that Jagdpanzer 69 seems like a really interesting project! It’s a shame that it’s not that good of a candidate… :/ (The point is that it was like “just an idea”, or that you may not have found all the documents about it yet?) Because I feel that the Taifun would have been perfect at tier 9 (I had trouble imagining such a tank performing well at tier 10, even with a 120 mm L11), and I feel like the Jagdpanzer 69 could have been perfect at tier 10. But yeah, if we don’t have any basic blueprint about it, that’s pretty compromised indeed…

        Anyway, I don’t have any problems to imagine all the ton of thoughts you already had about the top tiers TDs… ahah So, for sure, that’s up to you, and also the incredible discoveries you make! 🙂




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  4. Afrika says:

    No more SPG please

    As of now from what I have observed and read on the forums of various servers people are NOT liking the new SPG mechanics.

    So from what WG stated they may just have to either ‘think again’ (which will take another 6 years) or drop the class as a whole.

    So please save your efforts and direct ur attention towards the balancing of the new tanks and TDs (Coz that department of WG has gone full retard since a year now)




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    • Mizutayio says:

      Don’t worry i have a backup: In case SPG class gets removed –> make em TDs.
      Also you won’t bellieve how much i want to take over WG’s balance departement. Sadly i’m nothing but a mere historian and no matter how much i try to reach their stubborn heads it’s pointless.
      Also WG in a nutshell, https://i.imgur.com/BNwyqUT.png




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      • Infernal969 says:

        Tbh even my grandma could balance the game to be more playable than the current team.
        But for some time now WG is not about any balance, but about milking as much money as possible.




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      • Thomas A. says:

        Question:
        Why place the M109 I need the Swiss tech tree when it fits more in the US tech tree?




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      • Mizutayio says:

        Never said the M109 can’t be in the US tech tree. It’s not like it matters that much anyway as SPGs all play exactly the same.




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    • Ragnarokbazil says:

      Wow what a bitch gets hit for 26 damage by an spg and whines.. SpG are not that bad anymore they are very balanced now get good




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  5. Noidea says:

    mate this update is even better than the first draft. Keep up the good work.




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  6. heinz says:

    All we need now is a pic of the techtree!




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  7. zeroyuki92 says:

    This makes more sense compared to the previous line, Mizutayio. Thanks for your hard work.

    I personally do not prefer WG to add more SPG as it will only cause headache both for devs and community, but I guess some people might want to see them to be represented in the game. Not sure if making them as TD would work, but in the end I think even seeing LT + TD + HT tree would be great as adapting all of them would take plenty of time already.

    I would add something about tier 9 one: The fast reverse thing is a very nice feature of Swedish TDs, so that would be something very great to have especially without siege mode. Not having that feature in tier X would be a great downside for Taifun, experience wise 🙁




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  8. _Chrueterchraft_ says:

    But whait….Can`t really see the Ricola Grenade




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  9. Thomas A. says:

    But the M109 is American made.
    And also the American SPG can make a new second turreted SPG line.




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    • Mizutayio says:

      I don’t think people would mind having 2 of the same SPGs, in the end they all play the same.




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    • ndiver says:

      (I tried to reply earlier from my mobile but it failed).

      Several points justify the M109 here :
      1) was in service in the Swiss army : http://www.militaerfahrzeuge.ch/unterkategorie_13_31_355.html
      2) no other realistic candidate to complete the branch, and
      3) fits perfectly at the tier 8, for both Swiss and US trees.

      It is highlighted in my proposal of second branch of American SPG, aka the ‘lightweight branch’: https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/02/08/us-light-arties-branch-proposal/
      When we were working on an extended Swiss tree with anodjl (compared to what was already available) starting in November 2015 (based on the data of Volketten, before Mizutayio discovered all these lovely Swiss beasts), we started in January 2016 to speak specifically of the SPG, and discussed of the M109 aka Panzerhaubitze 66, and its position in the tree (see here, especially pages 5-6: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/535543-larbre-suisse-dans-wot/ ).
      As this time we were not sure where would fit the M109, we were even wondering if it would not be a TX (famous tank, still in service…).
      But when building the US lightweight SPG branch after the suggestion of anodjl, I realized that the M109 would be in reality not more than a tier 8, especially because of its 155mm and because of lightweight US SPG with larger guns (M107 & M110). The tier 8 appeared to be also the best position for this vehicle in a Swiss SPG branch considering the other tanks we had for this branch (Panzerkanone 61 & 61).
      However, we also realized that the upgraded version Panzerhaubitze 66/74 (aka M109 Kawest) is too strong to be simply the full version of the Panzerhaubitze 66 as tier 8. So we suggest to put a nerfed Panzerhaubitze 66/74 as a second TX Swiss SPG next to the Panzerkanone 68.

      I hope you see now a bit better on the question of the M109 in the Swiss tree.




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  10. Nevermind says:

    This is a really nice job Mizutayio. I do like the TD’s. Although I would love to see Arty go the way of the dodo, and the new patch did not really “fix” the issue, If we have to have Arty, the Swiss set of SPG’s you list here could be a lot of fun. Thank you for your work, I hope WG listens. they could learn something.




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  11. OrigamiChik3n says:

    Playing “Kanonenjagdpanzer Ruf” could potentially be confusing. Gets shot in the arse: “they killed our driver!!!”




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  12. James k says:

    IMHO the arty re-balance has made things better for both ends of arty.
    I actually will play mine again, while still annoying it is not a game ending hit by arty now.




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  13. Konstantin says:

    I think M109 let it be better in the US branch. How do you like this option?
    8 – 15cm haubitze 42/46 auf Panzer 58
    9 – Panzerhaubitze 68 Prototype(on chassis Panzer 61)
    10 – Panzerhaubitze 68




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  14. Konstantin says:

    Swiss variants of Kanonenjagdpanzer is interesting. And in what years, if more accurately created Taifun?




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