To be blatantly honest?

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Hello,

Although I didn’t stress much about the SirFoch/Circon drama initially, I had a moment to think after recent developments.

And to give more insight, the reason why I didn’t stress was because I put this situation into the “Human Error” folder. Like I said in my previous statement, I ultimately see this situation of two parties who were out of line and who should have communicated better with one another but have acknowledged what they did, it happens, people do mistakes and stupid things all the time and I viewed this as a person who, for a quite a few times, has “angered” the company.

I waited before jumping to conclusions and I was right to because I got my suspicions confirmed of what actually went down, the statements that were given and the conversations had with Wargaming EU not only confirmed it but were satisfactory as well given that I know both employers -in real life- well enough to trust them and for as long as Florian is the Head of Community Management my trust will remain.

 

What made me change my mind? When I thought this shitstorm was calming down, Wargaming NA decides to give statements to Kotaku and Jim Sterling with false accusations:

When the first statement appeared Kotaku simply said it had come from Wargaming, a server was never specified, as far as we, EU Community Contributors, knew this didn’t come from EU but it was after Jim‘s video that we finally managed to pinpoint the source of them, these statements were given by a Senior PR Manager from the WG NA office.

Not only shouldn’t WG NA speak for European affairs do you know what’s even worse? I asked the right sources, WG NA didn’t communicate with WG EU for information before making the statements.  

Plus, almost nothing on those statements is true, from the hate and homophobic slur accusations to even saying that people get “second chances” when in reality SirFoch was never given a second one, this was his first “strike”, if strikes even existed before this situation blew up, on an attempt to throw SirFoch under the bus!

Not to speak of defending and taking on the stance onfgiving a copyright strike to silence SirFoch. You can’t copyright strike someone when the person hasn’t breached any copyright, it’s not just an abuse of power and the youtube system, its illegal! WG NA views are at Gaijin level opinion wise.

And let’s not speak of how hypocritical this move was given that when we from this side of the pond try to speak with the NA office to get nice things for the NA community, we get dismissed.

What’s even more serious, after those statements, what makes you think that Wargaming won’t put another content creator under the bus? Given that Wargaming is a Global Company as the NA office just proved it.

… I am pondering currently my status as a CC as I type this…

PontyhairyJedi has just left the CC program and so has TheMightyJingles:

 

This latest situation is only the cherry on the cake of the things that have been wrong with the company, I got some really high doubts on anything that WG promises nowadays unless is comes from some very specific individuals, especially after the Rubicon incident, I do not feel that WG has fulfilled their promises and they make them only to appease people when things are heated.

Also, I do not agree with the direction the company is taking as development goes, like their new crazy, the P2W Premium Tanks like the Chrysler GF as an example, I wasnt happy, I told you and I warned you when WG got certain people working in Minsk and now you know why.

I haven’t been a “Happy player” for quite some time.

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145 comments on “To be blatantly honest?

  1. zombietropa says:

    I’ve just and read WGEU’s reply to WGNA statement. And to call it half-hearted is to put it nicely. This is truly a case of WGNA going “Hold my beer!”. WGEU went from accusing Foch of slander, to WGNA committing slander themselves. Words cannot describe the amount of incompetence that has been on display over the last couple of days. I just hope that WG HQ at Cyprus sorts this shit out, and learns lessons from this.

    This episode has shaken my faith with WG, and has me looking around for something new. But at the moment, tank on tank combat wise, there isn’t alot (and dont mention Warthunder; where I hate the economy, and AW; which looks more like a zombie than I do).




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    • Rita Sobral says:

      Send the link please, I may have missed something. So many statements its easy to get lost + still waiting for a final answer on something.




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      • zombietropa says:

        http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629752-message-about-the-sirfoch-incident/

        Forum post: “May I ask about the alleged “homophobic slurs” (some of?) you guys mentioned?”

        Njial: “We don’t think it was appropriate in language or tone for a Community Contributor video (SirFoch) but we’re not standing by those claims.”

        I maybe misreading it, but its not an apology or rejection of the claims made by WGNA from WGEU (yet). More of a distancing exercise.




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      • Rita Sobral says:

        Thank you! Yep all looks good with what I heard.




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      • Tobi_1989 says:

        Considering the current clusterfuck of mixed opinions between WG branches (and, frankly, even inside them) i wouldn’t take anything for granted as long as it’s not comming directly from Victor Kislyi’s mouth…

        And i think (well, more like i hope) loosing the single biggest community contributor for both WoT and WoWs could be ultimately big enough bombshell to make him join the discussion, put the Team ‘Murrica on short leash and try to handle the global shitstorm himself…




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  2. I say the wellbeeing of everyone involved depends purely on a friendly dialogue, aiming at a respectively diverse consensus.
    Doing this somewhat transparent could expedite matters. Especially the ugly ones.




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  3. Shaun says:

    What if YouTubers don’t feature Premium Tanks in replays and/reviews? Can still put the same amount of content on their channels with ‘normal tech tree’ tanks without helping WarGaming with the new trend of the “power creep”




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    • Rita Sobral says:

      Would be an okay idea if you wouldn’t sweat credits like a sinner in church for playing high tiers for not having Premium account or tanks running.




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      • bbmoose says:

        Maybe you (or Jingles) should do such a video, like: “Playing without paying in WoT”.

        It would show how bad the situation in WoT currently is.




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  4. DickHerMax says:

    To be honest, I think this case grew to a size where it could become a wagon for future change. If we gather all WG’s empty promises, double standards and their attitude to the fanbase (and “regional racism”, RU always has the final word) as well as their business model becoming wilder and wilder then perhaps we could speak together loud enough and make a clear point which would be heard and taken to the heart by WG.
    You say that it is not only about SirFoch. This is also how I feel. WG in recent years has become more of a propaganda company rather than actual game company. They seem to be interested only in maximizing the income by any means from their products. 80% of their WOT-development is just nice talk, 20% actual work and changes. These people are still not halfway done with modernizing the GUI, we have 4 generations of GUIs in the garage. Why? Because one screen per patch adds up more to the illusion of constant development.

    I do realize that I am just some anonymous dude, but if more CC, especially rational, mature and hard-working ones like you were to follow Jingle’s example WG would perhaps wake up and think through their deeds.
    After they settle things out, I am almost certain that they would like to see most of the CCs who quit back in their place.
    It might be childlish or a bit naive of me to think so, but I really think that “quitter-CCs” could be the representatives of the dissatisfied part of the community. Community itself cannot form their expectations or opinion clearly enough, there is too much noise, trolls and haters just wanting to see the world burn. But CCs using this moment could amplify the good part of the community’s wishes, requests and complaints.

    And don’t mind my nickname, I just started using it here long ago and I want to keep my all comments together under the same nickname xD




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  5. Shrike58 says:

    Thinking about this a little more I’m reminded of the case of some NA players such as Garbad and the late Poshybrid who were much beloved in some circles but who got slapped down for their abusive language (…and sometimes high-handed behavior (TK much buddy?)). Instead of inflammatory red-herring statements about “hate speech” and “homophobia” (give me a break) reminding people that this is a PG-13 game and moving on would have been sufficient.




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  6. mechadrake says:

    in sovietgaming wargaming plays you




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  7. lap tech says:

    Many people are failing to understand the slander, hate speech and homophobic slur issue. Firstly, SirFoch at the time was a WG EU community contributor and therefore represents the company in the views he makes. His original video is a ‘clusterf**k’ of issues because he forgot to say the important words ‘In my opinion’. Without that statement it changes the whole context of the video to that of a representative of WG EU making personal statements about the tank and the company.

    The hate speech and homophobic slur comes from one statement ‘the gun is f***ing aids’. The angry and hostile tone he uses in the video makes that statement both hate speech and homophobic. The slander comes from the statement ‘greedy f**kers’. Remember these are not his opinion’s because he failed to disclose this fact in the video and therefore the stuff he say’s becomes ‘statements’. Therefore he would have to provide supporting evidence that WG EU are in fact ‘greedy f***kers.

    Any competent lawyer will tell you that when you represent a company, any views or opinions you have you must either verbally, written or both, make a disclaimer that the content within the video are the personal opinions of the reviewer. Opinions are protected under free speech but in the case of the original SirFoch video, the absence of that disclaimer means anything he says becomes a statement of judgement and can be challenged in a court of law.

    As for community contributors leaving because they fear censorship and the use of copyright strikes, well that’s born out of their own paranoia.

    All the before represents my own opinions.




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    • xanderini says:

      Not sure that’s entirely accurate. As far as I’m aware, everything I day which is unqualified is my opinion, legally as well as logically.
      Thus as Foch did not specify what they we’re fucking they’d have to take him on the greedy grounds and I’d say they’d have a difficult time of it as they’d have to prove they could not be accurately described as greedy in someone’s opinion.

      I say this because you can most certainly say your boss is a dickhead on social media and he cannot take you to court for it but you can’t say he’s a sheep botherer because that would be actionable.




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    • schizophrenic says:

      These are entirely my thoughts on this.
      Even when you browse youtube’s F.A.Q. about fair use policy, you will find in that F.A.Q. about fair use:

      “4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

      Uses that harm the copyright owner’s ability to profit from his or her original work are less likely to be fair uses. Courts have sometimes made an exception under this factor in cases involving parodies.”

      Of course Wargaming as a company (EU or NA) would distance itsself from “their gun being AIDS” because it’s a terrible way to describe it. And of course it’s a homophobic slur aswell, just because in Jimquisition/Jingles opinion this it isn’t, there will be (quite a few) people, who are offended by this. Sure, there are worse slurs, and he probably wasn’t homophobic by intention (as in “I hate fags, let’s make fun of them and call this gun AIDS”, but phrases like this are way overused in current internet/pop cultre, and starting to lose the grasp that they actually hurt people by saying such things. So I find it very refreshing a company like Wargaming does not tolerate such speech in any video associated with them.

      People (trolls) will now go out, and call me a SJW, but I am pretty confident they are just a loud minority (hopefully).

      That’s my 50 cents. Peace!




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      • Anonymous says:

        Calling a gun AIDS is not a homophobic slur. Indeed it is homophobic for you to associate Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome with homosexuality and bisexuality. I’m a dude that enjoys sex with other dudes, so I would hope that retards such as you and the WG NA idiots that made the false conflation would shut the fuck up. I find it insulting to say that is homophobia because it actually takes away from legitimate complaints about homophobia.

        WG has no business trying to get in the position of saying something is homophobic or not, especially since their biggest events are held in Russia where it literally is illegal to simply exist as a gay, lesbian, or bisexual person.

        Oh and I wouldn’t honor you by labeling you as a social justice warrior, because you’re perpetuating myths and taking away from the voices of those of us who are legitimately affected by homophobia. Instead a more apt label is bootlicker.




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      • Rita Sobral says:

        I think think about that although I avoided implying it.




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    • Thaldor says:

      You didn’t watch the Jimquisition, did you?

      There was quite a big part about companies making YouTubers their representatives with giving some free stuff to them. The biggest problem, about every “representative” gained this way is that they are just amateurs and as amateurs they will stay because all companies see is “free marketing”, they don’t take the risk and give these “representatives” clear and binding guidelines (because that would rise the bar to get into that program because it would take away the freedom of the creator) or the trouble of sending these “representatives” to a course on PR and marketing so they would be professionals (which could also mean that after that they would require salary).

      Don’t take this wrong. It’s completely ok and fine to give YouTubers and bloggers free stuff and sponsor them. The problem here is that companies then expect these to work as their representatives without making it clear with them. Not even talking about someone like SirFoch who is great example of why this kind of system is somehow problematic, WG just asked SirFoch to be CC and he said “ok, but I won’t change my style or my opinions” where WG, completely knowing SirFochs saltiness and style, said “fine, welcome abroad”.

      Of course common sense says that if you get something free you don’t make a bad review of it (or at least review that completely shoots it to the ground). But quite many people don’t have that kind of moral or they have balls to say things as they are even if they got the thing free for a review (Fochs video went totally too far in this and was bad taste). Quite often that might also be just about the personality and, like with moral, keeping that out of review asks professionality which you, as company, cannot ask from single YouTuber who you just almost randomly sent free stuff to make video. If company wants advertisement, they go and hire professionals to do it for them, not just sent their product to some consumer and say “do whatever you do” and expect that consumer to make the best ad ever for them. If company wants honest opinions on their products, they sent free products to consumers, but then they get what they ask for and, even if rare, something like SirFochs video is one possible result. If company wants someone to represent them, they again go and hire people to do that, not just sent random free stuff to people and expect them to understand that now they are your companys face, because you were too cheap to hire some actor to do it for you.

      And I don’t mean this as bad for any CC or that. Just the same as Sterling said, it’s just companies who are dumb enough to expect getting PR people by giving them free stuff without legally binding chains and don’t expect it to backfire on them.




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  8. Cebulowy says:

    Well. I have all this prem tanks, but I just don’t play them because I feel it is a shame. I wanna be a good player., not a player in a (too) good tank.




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  9. armando30 says:

    after apologizing comes the always dumb WGNA to fuel it again, then again in the US accusing someone of slander is like a daily occurance
    people sue each other all the time for no reason, specially with these recent so-called “equality” or “human-rights” groups, you know the kind who claims someone is doing something when they actively do the same thing as well, or also those who threaten to sue someone for feeling oppressed when they are the ones being violent to them (check online, there’s plenty of cases)

    WGNA probably did not measure what it meant to take such position and WGHQ should make “heads roll” as an apology to the whole community, Ph3lan should at least be pulled from having direct contact with the CCs and “let to rot” as a forum moderator




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  10. zwinmar says:

    Foch used ‘fuck’ many times. So the fuck what? It is a word and people cry because they find it ‘offensive’ when they need to grow up. It is a stressor indicating strong feeling, or for those of us who have been in the military is a noun, verb, adjective, etc., and he was trying to get his strong feelings across.

    That said, I left WT when they decided to censor people and haven’t played WoT in months for the same reasons Foch insinuated.




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  11. Cygnus610 says:

    Latest JOINT statement from WG signed by all markets located here:
    https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/sirfoch-incident/

    Now to see if someone else muddys it more.




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  12. Tancredi says:

    Wargaming has released an official statement regarding the incident just recently, and it’s signed by different managers (including a general manager of WG NA) I am pretty sure they will not use copyright strikes to censor videos.

    https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/sirfoch-incident/




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    • We Are The 99.9% says:

      Not sure why your post got downvoted. It points to the best WG statement so far. The fact that it is signed by the GMs of WG EU and WG NA is a good sign. Their acknowledgement that mistakes were made is a good sign. Their statement that they will communicate better with CCs (who are, for the most part, not professional PR people) with guidelines is a good sign. Their acknowledgement of slander against SirFoch and apologizing for it is a good sign. The statement of their official position on using DMCA to silence critics is a good sign.

      I am disappointed that they didn’t truly give SirFoch a “second chance”, as claimed in their statement to Kotaku and Jim Sterling, by inviting him back to the CC program.

      I am disappointed that it was not also signed by the CEO. The fact that it is only signed by WoT managers mean that this does not include other WG properties, e.g., WoWS and WoWP. I infer those games are still subject to DMCA threats.




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      • Thaldor says:

        Just to say another CC has released the email send by Marcus Schill to current and ex-CCs which goes a little more in detail but basicly includes the same text with some extra assurances from the whole leaderboard including Victor.




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  13. IMCDundee says:

    Hi Rita,This in from WG, Hope Jingles and PHJ get thier status back!
    https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/sirfoch-incident/




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  14. Type 319 Sharpedo says:

    So glad I decided to pursue an M.D. degree instead of going into the video game industry.




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  15. […] need to point out that on my previous article “To be Blatantly Honest?” I wasn’t doing a “NA VS EU”, in fact, I wrote things in a way in an […]




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  16. Anonymous says:

    You are garbage, Rita. You just go with the flow. You haven’t taken a stand against pay2win.




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    • Rita Sobral says:

      Funny how you call me garbage yet I’m not the one who hides in anonymous and jumps so quick into blindsided hate without reading the article and other statements where I have, for multiple times, spoken against the P2W. 🙂




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