Italian Tech Tree: P.43bis Modeling Error?

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So, with the announcement of Italian tanks incoming to WoT relatively soon (since Poland is still supposed to arrive this year too, the Italians will be coming sooner rather than later I would imagine), lots of information and screenshots from the official Wargaming video have been posted online on the various WoT news sites, and within moments some sites began posting what the vehicles shown in the video were. To this end, I went and watched the video again last night in order to find proof that the M.14/41 was NOT modeled or shown, but that the second similar looking vehicle (fourth from left) was in fact the M.15/42:

(Note the different exhausts, as well as the fact that the M.15/42 has a jerry can on its left side and not a crew hatch, which was moved to the right side of the tank on the M.15/42)

Having found the proof I needed with the screengrab above, I was prepared to call it a day and simply wait for more news to come out about the Italian tech tree. However something else caught my eye, this time about the model of the P.43bis shown in the video with the other modeled vehicles……

Did anyone else notice what I did? If not, here’s a big hint:

The suspension modeled is completely wrong for the P.43bis. You can see this here by comparing the image of the tank modeled versus the picture of the actual 1:10th scale wooden model of the vehicle and an original April 1943 scale drawing of the P.43bis:

As can be seen, the P.43bis uses the same suspension from the P.40 and the “M” series (M.11/39, M.13/40, M.14/41, and M.15/42), namely the leaf-spring suspension, which in this case very prominently features two arms, with each arm containing two separate bogies, for a total of eight distinct roadwheels. Yet the vehicle modeled seems to have three independent bogies with two roadwheels each, which doesn’t make sense for the P.43bis. So this could be a modeling error on the part of Wargaming, which wouldn’t be the first time they modeled something wrong in WoT. This isn’t the end of the story however, as there’s another possibility that could be going on here.

Several years ago now, one of the Italian researchers, Zarax (who you might remember from some old articles on For The Record), found mention of some specifications for another P.43 variant. He goes on to give more detail on this in the above thread over on the EU forums:

Roughly translated, this P.43 variant would have at least 70mm of armor, weigh between 30 and 35 tons and much like the Panther, would resemble the Soviet T-34. Armament would be a 105/23 (105mm L/23) cannon using an Effetto Pronto shell (think HEAT), and propulsion would be provided by a powerful, but already proven aircraft engine, allowing the vehicle to reach speeds of 55km/h.

This type of speed would almost certainly be too much for the leaf-spring suspension to handle, especially if the weight was closer to 35 tons than 30. And there were Italian torsion bar suspensions that look kind of similar to that of the modeled suspension shown in the video:

The L.3/38’s torsion bar suspension:

And the same torsion bar suspension from the L.3/38 scaled up for use on the Sahariano:

So there are two real possibilities here, or possibly even three. The first is that the vehicle shown is in fact the P.43bis and Wargaming have simply modeled the suspension wrong. The second is that the vehicle is not the P.43bis, and is another P.43 variant most likely invented to fill tier 7 or 8 since the paper nature of the vehicle and the P.43 project itself lends itself to this. And the third and last possibility I can think of is that the vehicle is the P.43bis, but that Wargaming purposely gave it a different suspension because they decided to for whatever reason.

So, do you think, is this is a modeling error on Wargaming’s part, or do you think that this vehicle is not the P.43bis but some other P.43 variant?

24 comments on “Italian Tech Tree: P.43bis Modeling Error?

  1. There is one reason why I like Italians being added into WOT/WT; companies do research for you on tanks that I do not know…

    But knowing Wargaming… I really hope it is the 2nd option, but it would not come as a surprise as with the Czechs we got option #1.
    Zarax would start screaming that those incompetent idiots at WG didn’t understand his research and we have Czech-ception.
    I remember the problems WG had with the Czechs, when they got all the right info and the outcry with the “historical” Japanese heavies was comical too…
    Historical accuracy went out of the window years ago and I guess we have to live with that.

    (2-2 gameplay and overcreeped T8 prems are the way… A new OP line every patch to make kids dump all their free exp into it with some gold, to nerf it into oblivion or make something else super OP next patch… Goddamn, sometimes I hate I like playing WOT with friends, solo I can not take it seriously)




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  2. Nameless says:

    I would much rather have them release a Swiss tree rather than a Polish one.
    Much more variety and, overall, cooler vehicles than anything the Poles could ever come up with.




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  3. RailGun says:

    CAN’T YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT “IN DEVELOPMENT” MEANS????!!




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    • Life_In_Black says:

      Because something in development that could possibly be a mistake shouldn’t be pointed out so as to be corrected before release. I see you’ve never worked or functioned in the real world or you would know that.




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      • Nameless says:

        Hey, be light on kindergarden kids. They may one day grow to be the next generation of WoT developers!




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  4. RAD FROOD 25 (Console) says:

    How many variants are there? All I know is that there was the P43. And the P43bis.




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  5. Dorneles says:

    “in development” right? RIGHT? slown down a little.




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    • Life_In_Black says:

      Because something in development that could possibly be a mistake shouldn’t be pointed out so as to be corrected before release. I see you’ve never worked or functioned in the real world or you would know that.




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  6. Rozkoszniaczek says:

    This tank has also different backside and turret than “standard” P.43 bis, so…




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  7. OpaKnobbi says:

    Knowing Wargaming, as well as this wouldn’t be the first time they did, I would say they (again!!!) just fucked it up.
    But on the other hand, I would really like it to be the “second possibilitiy” 😉 A Tank like the one described, with ta bit of armor, speed and 105 mil gun AND possibly the auto-reloading mechanism sound nice to me, as a tier 7 – or more likely – tier8 vehicle




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  8. Ion7 says:

    The suspension in wot is not fully modeled to begin with. Looking at tanks like the kv1, one can see the road wheels move but the connecting rods don’t. If side skirts are to cover the side of the tank ( See the excelsior as an example) the road wheels may only be there for visuals.
    I have no knowledge of Italian tanks, just putting it out there. I know remodeler Milkym4n tested a working suspension system on a t-60 I believe, and would love to see better suspension preformance as well as moving components in future updates.




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  9. gian davidson fernandes alnmeida says:

    “And the third and last possibility I can think of is that the vehicle is the P.43bis, but that Wargaming purposely gave it a different suspension because they decided to for whatever reason.” This is the most reasonable.




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  10. GamingW/War says:

    Given WG’s history it could be the P.43bis but “fully upgraded” becoming a variant model over the original. Think Centurion Mk 1. When it’s fully upgraded it’s actually a mark 3. Likely that or a variant to extend the line to reach tier ten. Either way it’s still in development so we shall see what actually happens in the coming months.




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    • Life_In_Black says:

      That wouldn’t change the suspension or hull at all though. In that case, they would go for the easiest route and use the stock suspension. For example, the Japanese STA-1 upgrades to the STA-3, but the STA-3 had one fewer roadwheel than the STA-1.




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      • GamingW/War says:

        True, very true but we need more confirmed information right now. We can pick apart this model all day and it be a different tank entirely.

        WG did tell us that they made the P.46 entirely out of models that where never assembled so I wouldn’t put it past them that this is a idea of what could have been variant or the original.
        It’s just still too soon to call.




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  11. Snow says:

    TBH who cares about the historical accuracy, WoT isn’t War Thunder.




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  12. peter otoole says:

    There is another possibility and that’s WG have gotten access to information no one else has, information not normally available to just anyone researching armored, they have before right?




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    • Life_In_Black says:

      Eh, I don’t think that’s the case at all. Given the vehicle is pretty much modeled already, Wargaming isn’t going to wait for better information to come along and then make an entirely new model. Not when it’s far cheaper and easier to simply delay something and model it when the information does become available. Plus, Wargaming has gone and implemented stuff before without caring that better information was available as they didn’t want to spend the time or money or effort to get it right in the first place.




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      • peter otoole says:

        I know what your saying, but what I was implying was that they have already accessed this info hence why it’s been modelled the way it has.
        But as you say WG being WG have prob ignored the information and gone their own way as usual lol.




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  13. Telly says:

    We dont give a toss if its not quite right
    The game isnt quite right either and so get fucked noob




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  14. Captain Potato. says:

    That fake P.43 look a little like a what should look like a Habich 25 TP tank. But only a little. IF it is this, then wheels are possibly too small.




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