Clandestine Argentinian Floating Detention Centres Soon Available in WOWs

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Hello,

firstly, thanks to all the gentlemen in the RSR’s Discord that caught me up to date and gave me details on this matter as I am very much a casual WoWs scrub.

The World of Warships development team, to commemorate the upcoming South American tech tree, have decided to introduce their first ship. A ship that was used as a floating clandestine detention centre during the Dirty War to torture, rape and kill Argentinians and now they are trying to cater it to the very same people.

The Nueve de Julio:

To give more context, this ship has a particularly dark background, it was bought by Argentina from the US Navy in 1951 and by the mid-’70s, a decaying semi-abandoned and rat infested Nueve de Julio was refurbished, having its cabins converted into cells and then used as a clandestine detention centre during the Dirty War.

These centres were built to keep the victims (or the “disappeared“, as they are called), outside the protection of the law. There, thousands of people would be tortured, humiliated and dehumanized and mass murder was committed all while the government’s refusal to acknowledge the victims’ fate and whereabouts.

Despite that, the only naval action this ship has ever got was when her sister ship, General Belgrano accidentally rammed her.

And despite Wargaming having other far less controversial ship options, this is the ship the WoWs Dev team chose as the most fitting to start their South American line and now they don’t seem to understand why people are upset despite the fact they even were warned by the WoWS CCs beforehand.

Why they chose this ship? No one really knows but themselves at the moment but it’s beyond me how they did not see a backlash coming. It would not have been even an issue if they had decided to add it as USS Boise (Its original name while under the US Navy), for example. And for those who are more into WoT instead of WoWs, the equivalent of this would be the WoT Devs introducing a special edition “10th SS Panzer Division” premium version of the Tiger.

Tone deaf.

66 comments on “Clandestine Argentinian Floating Detention Centres Soon Available in WOWs

  1. If they ever do an SS Panzer Tiger, I hope it’s the 12th SS Panzer. Give me that Hitlerjugend Division, or give me death.

    *The above comment is sarcastic.

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  2. adamvulpes says:

    FYI: do not use the term “Dirty War”. It was neither a war, nor dirty. It was a calculated genocide. The term “Dirty War” is used by the apologists.
    Sorry to point it out but words can change the context.

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  3. yamatobts says:

    So are are saying this ship sould not be in the game cause it was used as a jail for the opposition during the “National Reorganization” of Argentina and that’s a crime. 9 de Julio, a ship designed to kill people used to kill people, disgusting right? If i follow that logic the Indianapolis shouldnt be in the game because he carried parts of the atomic bomb (one of the biggest crimes of humanity) Bismarck was the biggest representation of the nazy germany so it shouldnt be in the game (yup, the nazis do even worst) the beloved Tigers? Nazis… .-.

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    • Todeskult says:

      Following you thoughts this game should be closed. I mean for what purpose tanks were used? To carry goods to people? They were war machines and wars are always connected with suffering.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Bombing military targets is a crime….. mwahahahaaaa.
      tld.dr….. two bombs was not enough

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    • zombietropa says:

      “National Reorganisation” is such a quaint way to call mass murder and crimes against humanity.

      It’s not that the ship is a warship that I object to. I have no qualms about the Bismarck being in the game, even though it was responsible for the destruction of the Hood, with nearly all souls on board perishing.

      Its that WG have introduced a ship that was used by the military junta of Argentina to rape, torture, and murder their own citizens.

      There’s a difference between warships fighting each other, during a time of war, and the murder of your own citizens. Please learn it.

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      • Rita Sobral says:

        Like Zombie Tropa said. One thing is having ships in game that were used for naval combat, another is introducing a ship it was used as an Argentinian Auschwitz. Furthermore, not only its the first for the tech tree but on top of that they thought this would be a good ship to cater to the very same people it was aimed to torture, kill and rape.

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      • Mr. Rolleyes says:

        I beg to differ: Ships do not torture or rape. People do. Why they chose this particular ship, we do not know. But we really get enough two-standard censorship by parts if WG as it is.

        And, imo, one does not need to bring Auschwitz as a comparison into every discussion about torture and murder et al. There is enough horror to the matter in itself as it is. And I am writing this as someone who not only got through the Salvadorian civil war with its 75k murdered and countless ‘desaparecidos’ of its own, but also someone with a BA major in history and politcs. Each of these is particular and unique in its historical and human sense.

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      • Tricerius says:

        The ship was not aimed to fulfill those purposes. That is like claiming that the ESMA’s (which is FAR more infamous than this ship) go-to function was to be a detention center, which is also wrong. That it was repurposed for it is regrettable, but bottom line, both were pre-existing objects that were mispurposed by an incompetent set of generals who not only did what 99% remember them for (crimres against humanity), but also wrecked our economy (they killed thousands yes, but they doomed millions to poverty with their asinine policies), and went onto waging a war with mind-boggling arrogance and incompetence, both of which cost the lives of hundreds of young boys, whose only crimes were that they were in age for when Falklands happened, and that they were poor/uneducated enough to be fit to be sent there (my father was a college student, and evem though he wanted to fight there hr wasn’t allowed to. My friend’s father narrowly avoided being sent because he was only one subject away from graduating from HS by then (iirc, all of the other people of the same group that he’d have gone with, had he been sent, unfortunately died in the islands).

        As an argentinean myself ,and one that has no love for the Junta, this ship invokes no emotions whatsoever. And not much interest either. I would have preferred to see one of the Rivadavia class, which were our pride and joy at the time; or La Argentina or Veinticinco de Mayo (or her sister ship [referring to the italian-made CA’s]), as those would have been more unique than either 9dJ or Belgrano.

        Their excuse for not including Belgrano is bullshit. I find it far more likely that they are keeping Belgrano on the back pocket as either a line ship, or a T8 premium, so to milk it’s name’s worth. As for why they didn’t pick the ships bought by Brazil or Chile? That’s beyond me. Chile could be because of low market appeal, but that is definitely not the case with Brazil.

        Best Regards.

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      • Rita Sobral says:

        For all historical purpose it is good that people remember and know but (yes I do bring Auschwitz because its a wider known subject for people to understand) imagine a company selling Holocaust trains to Jews, homosexuals and every other background that suffered at those camps, that doesn’t sound nice doesn’t it? That’s the same WG is trying to do here.

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      • Tricerius says:

        The closest equivalent to that would actually be argentineans buying Ford Falcons… which we did, prior to the Junta’s rise, during the Junta’s reign, and after the Junta’s collapse. Granted, it is worth mentioning that the Ford Falcons that are particularly infamous are the green ones. But at any rate, most argentineans nowadays remember the Ford Falcon simply as one of the mainstray cars during the 70’s and 80’s (alongside the Fiat 600/’Fitito’), and not the Junta’s deathmobile.

        I think that you are seriously overestimating how well known this ship is amongst argentineans. I myself hadn’t heard of it until it’s backstory popped up in the WoWS community. And by all accounts, I am far more into military/naval stuff than others. Ask your average argie about ships, and they will either name Belgrano or ”El portaaviones (Veinticinco de Mayo)”. Perhaps San Juan too nowadays, due to it’s tragic loss last year. Most will simply be happy to see that a ship flying their country’s ensign/flag is in the game, and will either ignore or pay minor attention to it’s unsavory background which is ultimately irrelevant, given this game’s timespan (up to the 50’s, maybe early 60’s) and this ship’s current configuration (a combat vessel, and not a floating clandestine detention centre).

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  4. wolvenworks says:

    yeah how weird. they have a more acceptable candidate in General Belgrano, but somehow thru some pothead’s logic they choose to pick the one with bad reputation. why waste all this effort when they can just make KRI Irian?

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    • Rita Sobral says:

      Exactly, Belgrano would be perfectly fine.

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    • alhambra117 says:

      Supposedly the reason they didn’t choose the Belgrano was that they “couldn’t find schematics for her without the AA missile suites”
      That hasn’t stopped WG in the past, so….why then use a vessel the equivalent of a floating NKVD HQ?

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      • Nathan K. says:

        Historical accuracy has never stopped WG before. Just look at about half of the vehicles in any of WG’s games.

        I find it very had to believe that they can’t find schematics for a Brooklyn-class cruiser. It looks like the General Belgrano remained in its WWII configuration (more or less) until the missile system was added in ’68.

      • wolvenworks says:

        not enough russian bias? jokes aside this is indeed a very bad decision for WG

  5. Im from Argentina, and what baffles me is this:

    Two identical ships, from the same nation, one of them with a dark history and no combat record whatsoever,
    The other one, went down swinging in battle (sort of…), is considered a legendary ship, due to how and why she went to davi jones locker.

    i mean, it cant be that hard to put ARA Gral Belgrano instead of ARA 9 de julio.

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    • alhambra117 says:

      Supposedly the reason they didn’t choose the Belgrano was that they “couldn’t find schematics for her without the AA missile suites”
      That hasn’t stopped WG in the past, so….why then use a vessel the equivalent of a floating NKVD HQ?

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    • Trainspite says:

      I find it more likely that WG are saving Belgrano for other purposes. An Pan-Am regular line, or extra premium along the line. She is the more famous of the two, but with how Boise de Julio has turned out in game (ST walking the thin line the NDA leaves here), Nueve is the better choice to taste the waters. (If Belgrano is a turd, WG have wasted it and it’s launch until they want to rebalance it).

      As for including the ship itself, I see no problem with it. Although the premium camouflage has been taken from USS Nashville, everything else about Nueve seems to be very accurate for her as she appeared in the 1950s. WG haven’t introduced a floating detention centre, they are bringing out a warship. I will admit, I didn’t know about the Julio’s dark and atrocious last few years, but I don’t believe that is a reason to effectively censor the warship from the game. If Nueve was barred from the game for that reason, some classes of Japanese destroyers and cruisers could be completely removed for the reason that the crews of some of them committed war crimes against captured Merchant Sailors and PoWs.

      Once Nueve is chosen over Belgrano to appear first (I honestly can’t see WG using Belgrano eventually – far more potential), then there is no excuse to prevent it appearing. Also funny, that if WG never chose Nueve to begin with, doubtless more people will be ignorant to it’s last few years.

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    • Mr. Rolleyes says:

      Same class but not identical. Anyone who takes pride in building models will go for the most historically accurate option. What remains is the question of why not leaving the controversial ship out. And that is for them to know, us to question.

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  6. C says:

    @yamatobts The “reorganization” was a military hunta that hunted civilians (people opposed to the military takeover) and used the ship to imprison, torture, and kill them. While denying any knowledge of the whereabouts of those imprisoned on the ship. In my mind, it would be as if World of tanks introduced a map that took place in a concentration camp. I apologize for Godwining my post.

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  7. “the death of one is a tragedy, a million, a statistic”- Joseph Stalin body count 40-60+ MILLION. Including CHILDREN. Try his tanks in WoT, they are the best.

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    • Shade01982 says:

      Not really a correct equivalency, is it…

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    • Robopon says:

      40-60+ million? More like 40-60+ billion, amirite. Also Stalin ate those children alive, everybody knows that.

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      • Mr. Rolleyes says:

        Russian estimates range from 15 to 35 million unnatural peacetime deaths depending on how the unfortunate casualties are counted. And while a joke to you, cannibalism amongst some of the more desperate so called prisoners has indeed been reported from certain Soviet Gulag encampments during the Stalinist era.

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    • wolvenworks says:

      you imbecile IS tanks were named to honor him, not made/designed by him. the parallel doesn’t work that way! they only stopped naming heavy tanks IS because of Khruschev’s De-Stalinization program

      • my point exactly, thank you for proving it, while somehow thinking im the imbecile… he is responsible for TENS OF MILLIONS of murders, feared by his most loyal closest ranks, and yet honoured. So, now we debate, was he a good guy, or a bad guy?. Surely you can defeat an imbecile.

      • wolvenworks says:

        i’m afraid we’re not on the same page here…

  8. I. M. Offended says:

    Almost every piece of equipment, unit designation, emblem or nation in the game can justifiably offend someone. You seem to have no problem talking about Stalin. The Baltic genocide alone makes the Dirty War look like a Chuck E. Cheese visit. Why don’t you focus on the game and not the boring virtue signaling?

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    • alhambra117 says:

      There is a very key difference, IM, between a military vehicle used to fight other military vehicles during wartime, and a vessel the equivalent of a floating NKVD headquarters which had no service record with the Argentinian navy.

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  9. Anonymous says:

    Severogorsk was a russian gulag is that not like a concentraion camp

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  10. Yeah, but the sinking of the Belgrano causes a lot of anger for wholly different reasons.

  11. anon says:

    Severogorsk was a russian gulag and thats like a russian equivalent to your c-camps C

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  12. A_Troll says:

    Hmmmm…. based on this I think that the ship should not be included. It’s a bit of a hot potatoe. It’s like creating a map called Treblinka in WoT.

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  13. LOL this so hilarious… noone cares about some third world country OMEGALUL, this is a game stop bein’ sush a cuck.

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    • Shade01982 says:

      “third world country”

      Go to Argentina first before you say that…

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      • wolvenworks says:

        IIRC Argentina is, right? what most ppl seem to misunderstood is that First world means NATO, Second World is former Warsaw-Pact/CIS, and Third World means everyone else. the terms were made during the Cold War. Technically, that also means developed countries like SINGAPORE, IRELAND, and SWEDEN are also counted as Third person countries. it just had the unfortunate connotation of “poor country” since Third world countries include most of Africa, and that even currently most of 3rd world countries are indeed still poor, but there’s no shame in being called 3rd country because as much as marcin is trying to be a dick, he’s technically correct, even though unintentionally.

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      • Shade01982 says:

        Yeah, the cold war terms is what they originally meant. And by that standard, Switzerland would also be a third world country.

        By context, I just inferred that this person meant state of development. And Argentina is really not underdeveloped. Especially for a nation in Latin-America, it’s doing remarkably well.

      • wolvenworks says:

        is it? never been to south america, so all i know are Brazilian slums. and that timebomb/nuclear warhead called Venezuela.

      • Shade01982 says:

        Well, as far as I can tell, it has high literacy rates, high educational rates, low mortality rate, high life expectancy rates, decent R&D and a thriving economy. Better than several European countries at the moment.

        Mind you, numbers don’t tell everything.

      • wolvenworks says:

        agree. the USA would be the prime example…

  14. Shrike58 says:

    Getting back to the issue at hand this reminds of the time when WG was allegedly going to give you the option of putting the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia on your tank and switched at the last second to the Gadsden Flag.

    Anyway, the gang in St. Pete probably thought that the Belgrano would be too much of a joke so they went with the sister.

    Actually, considering that I see a lot more Brazilian than Argentinean players on the NA server they might have been better off with Tamandare or Barosso.

  15. Anonymous says:

    I don’t see how the naming of this ship helps Wargaming at any level.

    Ships are inanimate with no morality of their own and so are not responsible for whatever evil is done with/on them. That burden lies on whoever operated them.

    But if a ship’s name has become known as a site of oppression, it is hard to see how using that name would help WoWS, particularly as a lead ship for a tech tree and/or to expand the customer base in that region.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Seriously the General Belgrano (USS Phoenix) would have been a better choice. They could have copied another Brooklyn Class’s AA layout if push came to shove.

  17. Backslash says:

    I personally wouldn’t mind if they put a tiger from the grossdeutschland division due to their uniqueness in the second World war, but adding a prison ship to the game is just downright distastefull.

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  18. Anonymous says:

    Because using the General Belgrano would also just cause a lot of backlash too :’)

  19. Anonymous says:

    The ARA General Belgrano (formerly the Brooklyn class USS Phoenix) went down fighting as it was torpedoed by the British submarine the HMS Conqueror. This ship was part of the Southern flank of the Argentinian naval task force that was sent out to meet the British invasion fleet and challenge their exclusion zone around the islands. The General Belgrano deserves to be added instead of the ship mentioned above since it made a valiant effort to disrupt the British Royal Navy. I believe that the ARA General Belgrano, along with the other lead ship in the north ( the carrier ARA Veinticinco de Mayo) were escorting destroyers which carried Exocet missiles. These posed a serious threat to British naval vessels and transports, hence why the HMS Conqueror sank the Belgrano before she moved into shallower waters and into the exclusion zone.

    There’s a much richer history to the ARA General Belgrano than the ARA Nueve de Julio. Given the latter ship’s dark history, it should make more sense for Wargaming to implement the Belgrano. Or at least, if they decide to stick with the Julio, then they should make an informational panel next to the ship that highlights the atrocities committed on it so people are not blinded into thinking that it is any old ship. In fact, Wargaming ought to do this for more and more ships so people learn about it in game, instead of simply waiting for Wargaming to make YouTube videos about their ships.

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  20. Maikal says:

    Ignorance causes historical repetition. If as one poster stated the Argentinian children of today do not know anything about this ship, then shame on Argentina’s history professors, teachers and its government! I don’t blame the general public. Many were collaborators with the regime at one level or another during that time, so shame and fear plays a part on they not wanting to speak of the 9 de Julio to their children. Latinos in general have had a rough time with near past dictators from Chile’s Pinochet to Spain’s grand bastard of them all Franco! Ignorance, its apparently still a problem amongst our countries! I will not buy the 9 de Julio and that is all I can do to show my displeasure.

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  21. Kazandero says:

    There was even a child reportedly born to a prisoner on that ship! No one ever reported the child being removed from the ship and no one ever reported what became of the newborn! That alone creeps me out! Wont be buying anyways as recent reviews show its not a very good ship to begin with!

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  22. Shiva says:

    Why did this article not pop up months ago?
    When the ship info and names were released?

  23. Anonymous says:

    Strange things happening under the Monroe Doctrine.

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  24. […] for the past months, so have I been paying more attention to the development of the tone-deaf World of Clandestine Detention Centres game and I have decided to start posting more information on […]

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