Second Supertest for the preferential MM tanks

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The first round of changes improved the vehicles involved, though some are in need of further changes. First we have the armor changes then the mechanics changes.

Update. FCM 50T further changes in italics.

    • Reload time from 7.192 to 6.521;
    • Rate of fire from 8.343 to 9.202;
    • Damage per minute from 2002.3 to 2208.4;
    • Power from 1000 to 1250;
    • Specific power from 18.44 to 23.05;
    • Gun Depression from -8 to -10.

From WoT Forums.

64 comments on “Second Supertest for the preferential MM tanks

  1. Anonymous says:

    still doesn’t make up for pref mm, i bought several tanks that have it, and we are being blackmailed into accepting it or be bumped.

    10
    • Renarde_Martel says:

      You do know that preferential MM isn’t getting removed after all? That’s why we’re just getting some small buffs instead of complete reworks?

      37
  2. Synvy (Tea) says:

    What is so perfect is that, they still cannot pen their own reliably.

    16
  3. rade890 says:

    KV-5 buff except armor?

    1
  4. Anonymous says:

    Where is the FCM?

    8
  5. Ferenc Kori says:

    The problem of pref-MM: tier 8 tanks – which were designed to fight maximum tier 9 tanks – , they fight other tier 8 tanks – which designed to fight tier 10 tanks.
    Ie.: 112 or IS6 fights vs Defender.

    Also 175 pen (or 182 pen) is good for spanking tier 6 or tier 7 tanks …. IS6, 112, WZ-111.
    For anything else you have to use gold ammo, therefore you will lose money with a premium tank. … Which is a joke.

    You may say “aim for the weak spot”, but low accuracy does not help.

    21
    • Anonymous says:

      Actually low accuracy doesn’t matter much when ure in a heavy tank. Ure supposed to go head to head and not snipe. Perhaps u’d be better off playing a medium sniper or perhaps a TD.

      6
      • ROMBAT says:

        Low accuracy means that you woun’t be able to hit a weakspot reliably. So go ahead face to face and fight an e75 with is6…that’s your ideea? Pretty dumb thinking.

        8
      • Nameless says:

        “…low accuracy doesn’t matter…”
        RNG: Hold my beer.

        14
  6. Tachenk0 says:

    Yeah… and next you have to buff VII&VI cause they will get rofl stomped by these buffed tank (even more than they get now)

    1
    • ROMBAT says:

      With present mm this premium tanks get in tier 6 matches only in 1 of 10 games. 4 out of 10 will be full tier 8 games and 5 out of 10 will be tier 9 games. So no real danger that you’ll smoke tier 6 tanks.

      1
  7. rubberboas says:

    Now THAT looks like a real JT88 buff.

    5
  8. Anonymous says:

    I know it’s not a pmm tank but they should have a look at the is3a

    1
  9. Anonymous says:

    FCM needs an buff of the hidden aiming stats or an aim time buff not more speed

    3
  10. Helmuut Dokan says:

    FCM needs an buff for the hidden aiming stats or an aim time buff everything else (speed,dpm buff) is not as important as the aiming buff and if you drive even faster your aim is going to suffer even more

    4
  11. Infernal969 says:

    How about those incompetent idiots finally render both cupolas on the damage model of the Super Pershing?

    5
    • shithead says:

      This. As this is really absurd after SP being in game for 7+ years now?

      Also they probably should focus on gamebreaking bugs like silent hits (where’s my hp?), asshat MM or broken friend list, that plague the game for like a year and WG doesn’t give a sh1t.

      2
  12. wolvenworks says:

    i love SP buffs. it makes me less guilty about leaving my SP to rust in the garage, but now i have to spend another 1.5 mil to fit it again…

    • Robopon says:

      But SP is the best pref MM tank by far. It might as well not have preff MM, especially with those buffs.

      • wolvenworks says:

        haha very funny. nice sarcasm. be careful though, because it sounds borderline stupid. my stupid allergy has a hair trigger

    • lukas93h says:

      they should keep its current pen and give it its initial armor profile back (third spaced armor plate)

      • wolvenworks says:

        why not both the pen buff and the old armor plates? how many tier 8 and up tanks can you pen with 190mm pen, and how many can you kill with a 7-sec reload? even with the old boilers 190mm pen is outdated and underpowered for the current Murazor’d meta

  13. Nothing says:

    The IS 6 and KV 5 will still have no chance the Defenders and 257s, I don’t see these buff as being quality of play changes, just some throwaway tweaks to keep the player base quite and fighting amongst themselves. without changing the MM this is all a load of mashed potatoes.

    3
  14. Michael says:

    and now the SP will be an even bigger problem to thee tier 6s, yes, I know ‘aim for weak spots’, but that means sitting still in front of it. Nope, now we run away.

    2
  15. 2key 4skill says:

    The WZ-111 and IS6 and WZ-112 all have a 122mm cannon on them and they get a pesky 182 pen for a buff…..lol the Super pershing has a 90mm cannon and gets AP pen of 202 wow that makes sense???? Also the m6A2E1 has a 105mm cannon on it and that gets 204 AP pen I mean come on who come up with these stats for the tanks? I always figured that a bigger mm barrel would hold bigger mm ammo that does higher mm of penetration huh I must be getting this all wrong now. So smaller mm barrel should have more penetration then a larger caliber barrel ? I need to go back to school and take mathematics all over…lol cause lets see a 8.8 cm that’s on the JagDtiger if Im not correct is smaller then a 122mm cannon is it not? So that JagDtiger gets 212 AP penetration but again the 122mm on the is6 gets 182 somethings wrong here???? These pref matchmaking tanks are gonna be fighting tier 8 tanks that fight tier 10 tanks I understand that but can WG make it so these heavies get a bit more love then what they are showing. But I am liking the IS6’s armor that’s not to shabby

    2
    • SkaerKrow says:

      Believe it not, shell size isn’t the only factor in determining a gun’s armor penetration factor. That trip back to school might not be a bad idea, really.

      15
      • 2key_4skill says:

        do you even look at the game mechanics really? Now take a look because I am talking about the game. Ya you have no clue then as your talking about real life not a video game so maybe its time for you to head back.

        1
    • Anonymous says:

      What you need is to take physics. Try Conservation of Linear Momentum and Conservation of Kinectic Energy for starters, then equate back to mass of shell (one factor is the caliber aka bore size, as you said but remember to factor in length and material composition), velocity of shell (propellant amount, type, burn characteristics, gun performance ie losses and expansion efficiency) and type/shape/hardness of penetrator.

      And thats the very basics of kinematics.

      1
    • Indy_ah says:

      Bigger shell =/= better penetration
      F = M × A
      What this means is double the mass of an moving object and you double the force. Double its speed and youve got 4 times the energy. Btw penetration relies hardly on the type of shell.

      1
    • S842 says:

      2Key, many things determine penetration values and gun BORE caliber is just one of them. The WWII German Panther 75 mm tank gun actually had BETTER penetration than the 8.8 cm KwK 36 on the Tiger due to higher velocity. But the 88 was continually improved throughout the war with ever longer barrels (barrel length is also expressed in calibers by dividing length of the barrel by the bore size – so the German 75 mm/L70 has a barrel 70 times the length of the bore or 75 X 70 = 5,250 mm long) and increases in case propellent capacity. So the 8.8 KwK 43 on the Tiger II had considerably more penetration than the 88 on the Tiger I. Today, the U.S Abrams and the German Leopard II both fire the same NATO 120 mm round, but the Abrams has an L/44 caliber gun and the Leopard II has a longer L/55 gun giving a little better velocity and penetration. Of course, shell design is another consideration in penetration values too.

      2
    • Kubig37 says:

      Guys please don’t do this “go to school” thing… People are not taught about ww2 tank shell designs in schools anywhere. At least not in europe…
      While you’re technically right, the D25T gun on IS-2 (and so 112, is-6 too) real life pen is 200, or even 207/249 with later ammo. It’s just balance really, on the other hand it could in no way achieve some 12s reload, the shell is 2-piece and weights 25 kg. More like 20-30 s. Tiger gun is much closer to reality.

      1
  16. Mike-T 2016 says:

    The PMM fucked up MM and the in general MM template overhaul or ‘fixing it all to work’ is scheduled for this December for completion

    however
    If its late (ang likely will be, this is WG) and misses this December, and so WG promise its fixed by the summer 2019
    ~ its all too late for WG

    Or
    they only do half 50% of what they promise us, and that 50% improvement isn’t what we expect it to be! its really WG idea for ‘its version’ of MM (yet again
    ~ its all too late for WG

    Go look at the EU server numbers and remember what they were 1 year ago
    (before 3-5-7 MM template and HD maps in 1.0

    WOT is down -50000 players from last summer 2017
    this trend is year on year,

    go look, its sad to see ………

    3
  17. I know tier 8 hardly sees tier 6, but what is a tier 6 supposed to do against the armor increase?

    2
    • Bluff says:

      so u think tier 6 tanks should easily kill pref mm’s? wow thats a great idea, pass it to wg i bet they will f… up things even more!

  18. We wouldn’t need these armour buffs if WG would freaking rebalance premium ammo already. Any and all changes to balance is pointless as long as the balance destroying, broken mechanic of a crutch ammo is addressed.

    Heck, I’d rather they remove the ammo completely considering the game was balanced for years without the consideration of the presence of this ammo.

    Only then can we get a more easier time in balancing this game.

    4
    • Mike-T 2016 says:

      Sorry mate your wrong here

      without Gold ammo as you call it (hasn’t been Gold for over 5 years) then WG will have to remove +2 ~ -2 MM and of course the 3-5-7 template.
      the ‘Gold ammo’ as you say is vital for fighting +2MM Tanks that’s why WG do nothing to it

      Example, your in a Tier 6 Cromwell with 145mm Penetration and your fighting a T8 say a IS3 with ONLY normal AP ammo with 145mm penetration (no APCR at all
      what do you do? frontally nothing! Sides nothing! back of IS3 while? the IS3 2 shots you back to the Garage …. also a IS3 (without APCR) v a T10 IS7 = exact same scenario

      ‘Gold ammo’ is WG’s from beginning of WOT excuse to enable -2MM

      its was a ‘quick fix’ approach back in the day 2011 to enable enough players to get into a battle quickly without a 3 min wait for a single battle

      it was +-4MM then then later +-3MM so as fast into game waiting times
      now its +-2 MM
      Gold ammo allowed all this to work for WG

      now? well WG is ‘working on it’ which means nothing much does it

      2
  19. Anonymous says:

    PrefMM tanks will still be garbage with these changes. The only thing that will make these tanks viable is the complete removeal of prefMM as a mechanic from the game. Only then will these tanks stand a chance at being worth the team slot they occupy.

    I cant wait for people to start bringing these out in droves when the “buffs” occur so I can much on some easy XP pinatas in my normal tier 8 tanks.

    1
  20. Anonymous says:

    Jagd 88 is getting very awesome buff. The rest is useless except IS-6 armor and t-34-3 gun depression.

  21. Winterx69 says:

    So, time is almost ripe to ditch my non-preferencial Löwe, with all those other Tier 8s getting uber buffs… I remember how the Löwe was “buffed”: SerB had it filled up with a ridiculous amount of shells that it can never (!) use up in any sort of battle (ever!) and that was it. Like: “Hey, you will be seeing a lot more Tier 10 and Tier 9 battles where you won’t stand more of a chance than a snowball in hell – but here is some extra ammo capacity”.

    • Infernal969 says:

      Lowe got a buff to side armor and ridiculous turret buff. Maybe do some fact checking before you cry about a tank that is actually good currently.

      5
      • Mr. Rolleyes says:

        That is the least they did for a tank that sees Tier 10 battles at 70% and tier 9 battles at a further 15% of the time. What you call “ridiculous” is indeed ridiculous. But not quite in the way you would like to put it compared to what is planned for all those preferential Tier 8s.

        Perhaps you should consider following your own advice and getting your facts straight; WG already officially admitted the MM is rigged for Tier 8 tanks. Any premium 8 without preference is getting the shaft… and has been getting it for years!

      • Winterx69 says:

        Funny you brought up the terms “fact” and “ridiculous” when talking about the Löwe’s turret “buff”.

        LOL – Because…

        … as it currently ALREADY is, the Löwe has the WORST turret armor (2nd only to the T26E4 medium with spaced armor bonus) compared to all 8 pref. prem. tanks discussed here.

        And yet here you are, trying to tell us for a “fact” the Löwe had this
        Super-Duper-Über-Buff to it’s turret armor and that it is fine as is and as it will be once the other tanks get buffed further? You really managed to pick the crappiest stats of the Löwe and sell it as the golden lavatory. But I digress.

        Not only does the Löwe enjoy the

        WORST TURRET ARMOR of all TIer 8 Prem Tanks under revision

        but also the

        WORST DPM
        second worst SPR
        lower than average hull armor
        average Shell Damage
        average Aim Time
        second best HP

        it is top of the branch in having

        best penetration
        best dispersion

        And those are real cool stats… for a sniping TD. Unforetunately, the Löwe is a heavy Tank.

  22. AQ says:

    After hearing cry from some “great and smart” players, what we got is the following: same PMM that would still screw up the normal MM; slightly buffed tier 7.5 tanks (WG’s words) that still suffer from fighting against tier 9 and defenders; conclusion: nothing would have changed…these baby-crying players are so “smart” that If they don’t cry, they probably will get totally reworked tier 8 or even tier 8.5 tanks. However, “because I paid for the PMM…” then sure stop complaining your tier 7.5 craps, you paid for them.

    2
    • Its so freaking true. I dont understand why did these players cry about fighting againts T10 tanks, at least we should have better pen, armor etc and not these so called +7mm pen buffs which will still cant pen the murazor tanks. Well thanks for these criers now we will get the same shit with useless stats. Also didn’t these im***ils think about what will happen if WG actually do something about the T8 MM so it wont get constantly get fucked by t10? I would gladly take the full MM with the same buff as the first KV-5 buff, but oh well its to late. The funny things is that these players now cry about not getting the same buffs as before xdd, well thats what you get for getting an idiot.

      1
  23. Swatdennis says:

    I love how these tanks can bully T6-7 tanks more after these changes and still suck in complete T8 matches,

    Damn I hope this game is going to die soon, not because I don’t like it, but to force some real changes…

  24. NioHashiri says:

    Guess no one remembers poor old T34-2 or was it buff? haven’t played in 5 months.

    1
  25. Anonymous says:

    182mm of pen? Type 4s be afraid of my wrath!!

    3
  26. Partybooper says:

    I like my Type 59. And now it’s getting faster and better gun handling as well!
    And it only has to fight tier 9s instead of tier 10s all the goddamn time like my other tier 8 premium tanks!

    I take it.

    1
  27. jerryatrick53 says:

    Article updated FCM 50T changes found and added.

    3
  28. Nrde says:

    So the fix for these tanks is to buff armor, so everyone have to use more premium ammo.

    1
  29. Rawen says:

    The problem is not PMM but the influx of tier 10 tanks what the template MM can’t handle. So because more ppl are playing with 9 or 10 tanks and tier 9 and 10 are preferential MM 9 is -2+1 10 is -2+0 all these match should be filled with tier8 tanks. WG need to found a way like grand battle to remove 9, 10 tanks from random games.

    The second thing is gold or SKILL ammo. This type of ammo is balanced against +2 tier an IS3 gold ha better pen (265mm) than an Object 705 (250mm), Object 257 (248mm), IS7 (250mm), IS4 (258mm), Object 277(265), Object 705A (256mm) only tier 9 and above TD has better pen in the Russian three, and this is the main problem. How to balance anything when a tier 8 has gold ammo with a penetration value of a tier 10??? And above that this shell dealing the same amount of damage compared to the normal one.
    WG need to seriously nerf the gold ammo pen, or damage values, or implement a mechanic when you hit a tank wit 300mm pen but the tank has less then 200 overall thickness (in and out) the shell do less damage because it went trough. But i think this will never come they cant even reform the overmatch bull… so a tier 6 Russian heavy can overmatch the Sweden tier 9 td all the time. GG WP!!

    • sippi81 says:

      imho the MM is the problem since we have the 3 5 7 MM pref mm and standard mm is almost the same so you barely see any tier 6 or tier 7 matches in IS 6 and companions
      If both matchmakings are almost the same now the performance of the tanks should be almost the same too so increase the tank performance from like 7.5 to like 7.8 should be done

  30. LCD2310 says:

    What i am getting from the comments on this post is that there is not a consensus among the player base as to what would ‘fix’ the game.Its in my firm belief that if we the players cant agree what the right course of action is i don’t think Wargaming will be able to either.

    Every decision they make is hated by some and loved by others,i don’t see how they will ever be able to make everyone happy.

    1
  31. Rolland Gál says:

    WG: we will change pref MM tanks into normal tanks to fix the game

    everyone: no, it’s the 3-5-7 that’s broken and armor can’t be balanced with premium ammo

    WG: ok, we’ll add more armor then

    2
  32. Mikosah says:

    MM wouldn’t be under so much pressure to produce fun matches for us if it weren’t for the armor meta. Once upon a time, WG’s “only 5% of rounds fired are gold” may have actually been true. Hardly anyone used gold because hardly anyone needed it. Tanks with armor also had weakspots. Flanking routes were viable and plentiful. And you were just as likely to be top tier as bottom tier.

    Whether deliberate or not, the emphasis on corridor control and heavier armor may have answered the call to ‘make armor matter’, but the consequence has been that the interaction of penetration versus armor has been dumbed down to simply spamming gold. And now WG is trying to balance armor versus gold ammo. When armor dictates how the match plays out, MM’s task of making matches fun for all parties involved becomes virtually impossible.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Hi fellow Tankers,

    We wouldn‘t have problems like this if we had a +1 MM only or even better like Frontline +0. Frontline was popular for reason +0! with that in mind you only Need to Balance Tanks one tier beyond & above. Right now the balancing cant happen because it is a mess with all the Tanks in +/- 2.
    And when take in the huge amount of Rng 25% up & down to consider a even competetiv game mode it is absolutly hillarious!

    Have s Great day Tankers!

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