WoT: Ammo Revision: Sandbox Test Incoming!

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Last December we announced our intention to decrease the damage done by special rounds by 25–30% while keeping their armor penetration values. As such revisions require rigorous testing, more time was needed to implement them. Now that we have completed this round of changes, we would like to invite you to test it in the Sandbox.

How to Join the Test

The test launches today on the Sandbox server, and everyone is eligible to participate and evaluate the modifications we propose: you just need to apply on this site. Once your application is approved, your WGC launcher will feature a new title: World of Tanks Sandbox. You will need to install it to access the Sandbox server.

Important: The test will run from June 04  to June 10.

Reasons for Adjustments

Here’s why we are making these revisions:

  1. Currently, a significant portion of players choose ammo type solely on its armor penetration. For them, this single parameter is what makes the difference between a basic and a special round. The other stats (like normalization, penetration of environmental objects, auto-bounce angle, and velocity) are often ignored.
  2. While deciding to use special rounds, these players consider their immediate tactical situation. When firing special shells, one gets a clear advantage which is not offset by anything on the battlefield itself. However, the cost of using special shells only becomes apparent when the fight is over and the player realizes they have spent more Credits than expected.

One of the main goals of the ammo rebalancing is to encourage the player to choose ammunition more responsibly and thoughtfully in battle, taking into account the possible consequences of this choice. We want the player’s decision to be influenced not only by armor penetration, but also by a slew of other factors.

Changes to Tier I–VI HP Pool Progression

Together with the alterations to ammo mechanics, we are going to modify the low-to-mid-tier vehicles’ HP pool progression.

We have already told you about a Supertest we held for it; the results were satisfying (as was your feedback), so we shall integrate renewed HP progression for all Tier I–VI vehicles for the entire duration of this Sandbox test.

Ammo Revisions: The Latest Iteration

And now for the main changes to be tested on the Sandbox server. After a long Supertest for the first round of adjustments to ammo mechanics, a scrupulous examination of all pros and cons and the weighing of different viewpoints, we have decided to come up with an alternate concept for rebalancing of shells. The new solution is a complex one, coming in two large parts:

Boosting the HP pools of all vehicles in the game. The relative increase will not be the same for every tank and will depend on two factors:

  • Its current HP pool (relative to other vehicles).
  • The vehicle’s Survivability parameter, which is defined by such stats as its armor protection and HP.

For example, boosting the HP of the Maus and the Leopard 1 by the same ratio will benefit the Maus much more. The exact gain for every vehicle will depend on how efficiently that vehicle uses its HP pool in the current tactical environment. Well-armored tanks able to mitigate more damage with high survivability will receive a proportionally smaller increase in HP compared to their less-protected brethren. This is necessary to keep the vehicles’ relative survivability at the same level. The HP pool boost will range from 15% for heavily-armored vehicles (depending on tier), up to 30% for lightly-armored ones (for an average of 26%). The aforementioned Maus and Leopard 1 will get 18% and 29% respectively. These are test values and may change if needed based on the Sandbox test results.

Increasing the one-shot damage of the basic shell. It will improve by different amounts, depending on two factors:

  • The caliber of the gun (the primary factor). The larger the caliber is, the larger the damage gain will be. For example, the current mean value for a 90-mm Tier VIII gun is 240 points. After the rebalancing, it will go up to 315 points (an increase of 31.25%). An average 150-mm gun currently has an alpha strike of 750 points; after the changes are applied, it will increase to 1060 points (an increase of 41.33%).
  • The tier of the vehicle (the secondary factor). This one will not have as big an impact as the gun caliber, but will still produce some minor value differences. We shall maintain the correlation between the alpha strike value of guns of the same caliber and the vehicle’s tier. For example, a 105-mm gun on a Tier V tank currently deals 300 points of one-time damage on average. The shell rebalancing will boost this to 400 points (an increase of 33.33%). At Tier X, currently the most common damage yield of a 105-mm gun is 390 points; once the rebalancing is done, it will increase to 525 points (by 34.62%). The difference in relative gain between Tiers V and X is just over 1%, but it still exists.

It should be noted that tanks with basic HE rounds will also gain in alpha damage, albeit less: around 22%, with the exact value depending on the gun model. Though the one-shot damage increase is smaller for HE shells, the specifics of their damage-applying mechanics will keep their efficiency the same compared to that of other basic shell types.

Important: During the Sandbox test, we will continuously fine-tune the increases to vehicles’ HP pools and basic shells’ alpha strikes as and when it is necessary, to define the optimal ratio. The one-time damage of special rounds will remain the same, as the rebalance will only affect basic rounds.

These measures are to increase the share of damage done with basic shells relative to other shell types. We also want to create more variability for the players when they are choosing their round types and considering their current tactical situation.

We are going to test the following shell usage logic:

  • The potential one-time damage of basic rounds will become higher than that of all other shell types, and you will still have to aim for enemies’ weak spots. The basic round will become the most appealing shell type with the combination of armor penetration, damage, and price.
  • The special rounds will retain the highest armor penetration amongst all shell types, and a high probability of inflicting damage as well. With these revisions, their alpha damage will likely be lower than that of basic shells, and their price will be higher. Special rounds will remain the optimal shell to fire at a heavily-armored target.
  • Damaging opponents in Sandbox will be most likely when employing HE rounds (as it currently is on main servers). Yet, the actual mean yield will be the lowest among shell types because of low penetration chance. HE shells will have many situational uses, just like now: preventing base captures, finishing off opponents low on HP, dealing greater damage to thinly-armored targets, or increasing the chance to chip a small amount of HP from an opponent with good protection.

In the Sandbox test, every shell type will be highly efficient in battle (with correct situational use). The need to choose the right round type will by itself add tactical variability, have more impact on the situation on the battlefield, and increase your effectiveness.

Important: We would like to highlight that the current test will not include any changes to the parameters of HE shells (save for basic ones). We will make sure to consider changes to their combat efficiency later. After we get the Sandbox test results, non-basic HE rounds may undergo stats adjustments, too.

Your Feedback is Important!

Sandbox tests are necessary to assess the viability of our ideas and make sure our calculations for exact adjustment modifiers are right. We still have not decided on whether to implement the entire set of modifications listed in this article as we are awaiting the Sandbox test results, so we are counting on your active participation! But most importantly, we would like to let you try out all these changes in battle for yourself and give us your feedback, instead of just reading articles about them on this portal.

Important: We still have not decided on whether to implement the entire set of modifications listed in this article as we are awaiting the Sandbox test results, so we are counting on your active participation! Everything described above is a working concept of the rebalance, comprising of our ideas and suggestions. We need to hear from you about all the proposed innovations to make sure we are making a step in the right direction.

Join the open Sandbox test and share your opinion. Let’s make our game better together!

54 comments on “WoT: Ammo Revision: Sandbox Test Incoming!

  1. Benjeeh_ca says:

    I look forward to these changes
    The crutch so many people rely on is pathetic excuse for skill

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  2. RAD FROOD 25 (Console) says:

    No need to increase the damage of the rounds and the health of the tanks. Only need to increase the HP

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  3. sefhyro says:

    i bet they will not do shit to improve pen in frontal armor tanks like the chrysler k gf…

    i am already seeying it, bounce and more bounce in a tank whit no frontal weak spots…

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  4. AM_VonWarMajor says:

    This literally fixes nothing. More gold will be flung because of its pen and battles will last another minute more than now.
    The FV’s big 183 is more balanced than this “Test”.

    3
    • StevoMS says:

      You do realise that premium ammo now does considerably less damage than standard ammo with these changes right? Around 30%?. A t-54 spamming heat with 30% less damage would mean its current ammo would only deal like 250 average. Its dpm would be around 2000. People would have to start aiming again.

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      • AM_VonWarMajor says:

        Yes, but do realize that APCR has better velocity, pen and better ability to snipe at mid to long rang vs the AP?
        Yes AP would get buffed and have higher damage than the APCR but is unreliable at mid range. So, why would any one want to use anything but gold rounds? Especially stat patters that will mix their load outs to compensate their damage?

        You could argue about DPM all day but that doesn’t change the fact that gold rounds are still better than standard!

        Players will load more gold and this game will become more pay to win because they are not giving us variety in the ammo we use!
        If we could choose 4 different types of standard rounds that all had different properties we wouldn’t be having this discussion or test.

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      • StevoMS says:

        APCR is slightly better at sniping, at most 10% (if that). The only advantage it has is velocity but it also loses more pen over distance and is worse than ap at firing at angled and sloped armor, penetration is not apart of the argument. I can snipe just fine with standard in tanks that need to, majority of tanks are not designed for sniping. The ideal use for premium in those tanks is at close/ medium range penetrating tough weakspots and now since they are effectively reducing premium damage people will be motivated to aim and use standard because it is now the ideal ammo.

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      • AM_VonWarMajor says:

        Literally how is it better?!?!? Pen doesn’t matter?!?!? Pen is literally Everything right now! There’s a reason why players say “Load Gold” because they know that they’re going to win if they use it! All this test does is literally increase the use of it because standard still suck!

        Aiming for week points was thrown out the window years ago and it’s literally just a super heavy tank meta of “Sit here! Shoot tank! Kill tank! Wait for arty to die!”

        HP buff! Make game longer!
        Gold nerf! Make game better!
        Standard buff! Make game better!!

        I have no idea how people don’t see that this isn’t fixing the issues. This is going to make it worse! Standard and Gold need to be on the same playing field first! Than you can go ahead and say. APCR is better at X than AP and that’s my play style so I’ll do that.

        Standard rounds should have the same Pen as Gold. Gold should have the same cost as standard. Make all Tiers profitable.
        Than, go ahead and make these changes because it wouldn’t matter!

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      • StevoMS says:

        I hate to continue this stupid argument but here goes: They are going to make premium ammo objectively weaker by reducing the amount of damage it does effectively. You are saying that because WG made this ammo weaker people are not going to fire the same or less shells of premium ammo but are going to fire more after WG made it weaker??? lol wut??

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      • AM_VonWarMajor says:

        Yes they will. Mark my words they will. Because if the can pen with this apparent OP standard they’ll fire gold.

        You still are missing the point though! Like, I don’t even know what to say! This is laughably ridiculous. I’m at a complete lost. Seriously complete lost.

        I guess enjoy this fantasy! Lol! I’m done! This is hilarious! Oh gees!

      • Benjeeh_ca says:

        I’ll take my dpm buff I dont fire gold often anyways
        With lower alpha

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    • gundamu says:

      you’re dumb as fuck, people wont spam gold as much after this lol. unicum/blues/green will have to use regular rounds to get good wn8 and gun marks. gold ammo does way less ammo now, sure you can pen but it’ll take a lot more shells to kill tanks meaning you’ll burn through ammo.

      if you fight someone using regular rounds, they’ll out-dpm you and kill you.

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    • Havoc199 says:

      You are a regard….lmao

      It’s not ideal but now there is a reason to use standard over gold whereas there is no reason at all.

      I could put forth so many point but I just can’t be bothered. Judging by the conversation so far you are incapable of simple logical thought.

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  5. Anonymous says:

    Oh, boy, they went full retard this time.

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  6. Anonymous says:

    Like the game is not broken already. Let’s do some random ammo damage and HP increases, then will rebalance everything. Never ending cycle

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  7. Anonymous says:

    I like the idea of buffing hp at tiers 1-6. The rest not so much. Higher alpha means that the godawful 25% RNG is going to be even more annoying. Nerfing the alpha of premium rounds instead of buffing everything else is the way to go. But there’s one obvious reason why WG wants to do it this way. It means more $$$ into their pockets once you have to spam even more premium “speshul” rounds to bring down that Maus.
    I mean, what’s this poor indie company supposed to do, right?

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  8. madogthefirst says:

    Only buff the HP leave the alpha damage alone you fucking morons.

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    • Benjeeh_ca says:

      And how would this affect special rounds? Their end goal is to nerf those leaveig all ammo the same isnt the way to go

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  9. Gundam says:

    I see the special needs kids have come to comment already.

    This is the best approach wg could take since the future is now uncertain thanks to anti-loot boxes/microtransactions laws being everywhere.

    Nerfing the damage on gold rounds will cause a big backlash

    The only bad thing out of this is the reintroduction of td meta. You ready for world of tds??
    Some mediums like e50m(about time) will benefit greatly

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  10. D E A T H G R I P S says:

    I think that these changes are the right way to go. It’s actually extremely smart on Wargaming’s part too when you think about it. People would complain that their premium tanks are getting nerfed due to reduced shell damage on premium rounds. However, going this route makes it look like everything is getting buffed, while at the same time nerfing premium rounds too. They’re buffing the health as compensation for the damage on the standard and HE rounds. It’s Wargaming’s way of trying not to pull another Type 59 or Super Pershing refund when they nerfed those tanks years ago.

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  11. He man says:

    Really it’s so gold shooters, will have to spend more gold

    +lots of made up sales pitch bs

  12. Brian Balkwill says:

    I do not see any benefit in making normal ammo more effective if RNG is going to stay the same. When a six-skilled crew is still able to aim at the target, only to see the round fall 50 yards short or over the target, no improvements to normal ammo will help. And please, do not drag out the stupid “if you had skill you would aim for the weak spot” morons argument. That only works when hull to hull and the weak spot is 1cm from you gun and you cannot miss. Try doing that against a 705A using normal ammo – good luck.

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  13. Tancredi says:

    Which you shouldn’t snipe with a 705A to begin with since it’s a soviet heavy tank gun.

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  14. Tancredi says:

    If you have to snipe a 705A reliably, you either wait for a good shot or you track him and try hitting it’s weakspot or wait for your team to shit on him while tracked.

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    • Brian Balkwill says:

      Who said anything about sniping? I am talking about the fact that virtually no tank in the game can pen a 705A from the front with normal ammo. I would still have to use the same shell loadout after the changes because some tanks can only be penned with APCR.

      • Robopon says:

        Lol, IS-7 has more armor than 705a even though 705a is a 100 ton superheavy tank.

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      • gundamu says:

        tds can easily pen it from the front with regular ammo, the hull at least turret requires a bit of aiming

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  15. TheBigVadi says:

    I really like the way this lets call it plan B goes maybe it needs to tune up some things like maybe more hp because in my opinion the way to do it would have been something like JP e100 needs 3 shots to kill Maus after changing the dmg from the standar shot u should still need 3 shots considering that if u roll low u will need a 4th, but i think this is the good way

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  16. NoComment says:

    This does not look too bad on the face of it. One knock on effect I can see. Shorter games as the % damage increase is greater than the % HP increase.

    Though I don’t see any other real difference between this and the previously suggested option of nerfing gold pen other than marketing.

    • NoComment says:

      It just occured to me…They probably want to do it this way as it will be an easier job to rebalance HP values rather than armour layouts.

      1
  17. Brian Balkwill says:

    I love the usual ‘gold spammers have no skill’ contributions.

    And here is the real rank, stinking, hypocrisy of these people: Every single of one of their vehicles will be fitted with all available upgrade modules – in order to improve their chances of winning.
    They will use the expensive (gold or silver) consumables – to improve their chances of winning. They will use hard won directives – to improve their chances of winning.
    They buy free research credits with GOLD to research vehicles, or increase crew skills – to improve their chances of winning.

    So – they are quite happy to use 99% of all upgrades that cost silver or Gold, but run around clutching at their pearls, with their hair on fire when someone uses the one upgrade they ARE TOO CHEAP TO USE.

    All of my vehicle loadouts (except SPG’s) include some premium ammo. Why? Because the game physics of armour thickness/slope vs penetrative capability of shells REQUIRES IT. And before the usual parties jump in with “oh you can hit weakspots – using premium has no skill” – try frontally penetrating an AT2 from 300m in a T40 with even premium ammo – even then the only weak spot is the cupola.

    On higher tiers its even worse. There are T9-10 tanks *cough* Russian *cough, that are so buffed they can ONLY be penned with premium ammo – and only on a day where there are two blue moons in the sky, the day ends on a ‘q’ not a ‘y’, and a Guardian journalist admits that Trump has a point.

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    • gundamu says:

      carrying some gold ammo is totally ok, having a full gold loadout is not..
      thats the fucking problem you dumbass, too many idiots spam nothing but gold.

      if i am in a batchat/light/leo 1 is there any reason for you to shoot gold at me??

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      • OpaKnobbi says:

        No…. Or maybe yes, because of the higher shell velocity, that makes hitting your light (for example) easier.

        But let’s say no:
        Why do you you even care then?!? When somebody spams gold at you, who could have penetrated you easily with standart ammo as well, it changes NOTHING for you and for the outcome of that situation. Only for the gold spammer himself, because he may have waisted some credits.
        But that’s pure his own problem, don’t you think?

  18. JUST NERF THE AMMO TO ONLY GIVE A SLIGHT INCREASE IN PENETRATION. THEN ONLY REDUCE DAMAGE SLIGHTLY TO OFFSET THE HIGHER PENETRATION. THEN REDUCE THEIR COST.

    THEN WE CAN REVERSE AND NERF THE OVERARMOURING FROM THE RESULT OF THESE PREMIUM AMMO!

    THERE! SIMPLE! WHY FUCK AROUND WITH DAMAGE AND HP!?

    Fucking hell WG. TREAT THE CAUSE NOT ALLEVIATE THE SYMPTOM THROUGH SOME ROUNDABOUT BULLSHIT.

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  19. Anonymous says:

    I like it. After tier 1-6 HP-pool push was communicated, I was afraid to run out of ammo even faster in some of my tier 4-6. Now I was wondering why they do buff everything except the gold-round. It seemed to complicated to me. But after thinking for a while: You can not nerf a premium, due to leagal issues. If you “only” buff things, no one can complain. I think this is a complex but sneaky/ smart by-pass. It is like you have a contract stating, you never have to volunteer, but as soon as they ask for a volunteer, everyone takes a step back except you, so that you volunteer on you own.

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    • Kulingile says:

      I’m not convinced that there are any legal issues, but I’d need to read through the ToS again. I’m relatively sure that they can do whatever they want with the virtual goods.

      That completely aside:

      This is just plain ridiculous. There’s a much simpler and lower risk solution, which is what Wargaming originally proposed. These changes affect nearly every aspect of the game, from increasing alpha creep to to effectiveness of every vehicle to the economy, and have the potential to cause massive harm to game balance. It’s a lot of work to avoid a little backlash over nerfing premium rounds – although from what I’ve been seeing here and on the forums, public opinion is massively in favor of just nerfing the damage of premium rounds and being done with it.

      Now, I do like the low tier HP increase. Low tier gameplay can be very punishing due to the ratio of HP to DPM. Making it so that low tier tanks don’t die in 3 hits and 10 seconds will make it easier for new players to learn from their mistakes.

  20. Anonymous says:

    They may be able to arse fuck American sheep with their ToS but good luck doing that in Europe.

  21. Tiger says:

    There is 1 thing that surprises me. WG just balanced Kranvagn and Leo 1 on the alpha of their guns.
    Parallely they are planning to change the alfa of all guns in the game and revise the hitpoints.

    WTF are they thinking?? Just nerf the gold ammo and leave the rest untouched(100 changes instead of the 1500 they are planning)

    This has to be the first company that deliberately increases the volume of their work

    2
    • Robopon says:

      People specifically didn’t like that idea. One of the reasons why people disliked it was because it can be considered a nerf to premium tanks and that’s really really bad. So this is 100% the best thing they can do.

      • Those people are stupid and should be ignored.

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      • OpaKnobbi says:

        Yup they are, because with this bullshit currently on the sandbox server, their precious tier 8 prems are actually really nerfed, when they have to fight against higher tier vehicles, because they still have to load premium ammo to damage bigger tanks. while doing less damage relatively and getting rekt by the enemy even faster, because they can easily pen them with their buffed alpha stabdart ammo

      • NoComment says:

        @OpaKnobbi: They are also buffing the HP of your precious Premium tanks so the difference from now will be slight at most. Except you won’t get morons in higher tier tanks spamming gold at you so much.

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