Due to the extremely good feedback on yesterdays article on the swiss medium line, i’ll be doing an overview of the heavy tanks sooner than i planned.
I’ll start with the Standard Disclaimer that i do not work for WG and thus have no influence in what they do.
And another disclaimer, which i don’t know why it still need to be brought up:
Switzerland = Swiss, Sweden = Swedish
Anyway let’s talk tank.
Tier 7 : KW 40/52
40-45 ton version of KW 30. Due to the KW 30 having very poor armor with the proposed weight of 30 tons, it was suggested that KW 30 would have been uparmored to get a similar amor thickness as the M48 patton, so arround 170mm Turret armor and arround 110mm- 120mm hull armor frontally and arround 75mm side armor.
Top speed of arround 45 km/h with an estimated Hp/ton ratio of 13.3 hp/ton.
The gun would be a 90mm gun.
The reason why this never happened is because of the swiss designers figuring out rounded armor arround 2-3 years later thanks to the american Patton tanks. ( So yes, the Panzer 58 looks the way it looks thanks to the Americans)
Tier 8: KW 50
It’s called KW 50 due to the fact that it was designed in 1950 and thus is an earlier veihcle as KW 40/52, in order to avoid confusion with the name i changed it from KW 30/50 to KW 50.
While this vehicle used to be a Medium tank candidate, it would be much better suited in the Heavy tank line. While it would have been 30 tons, it’s far from being a glass cannon. Due to it’s hull being rather well angled and most importantly, piked. Because of that, the armor thickness and thus the weight could have been reduced. In WoT’s mechanics the primary angle is 65° which is 5° off from the auto bounce area, couple that with the secondary angle of 5-10° you get a upper plate which is: while relatively thin, very effective in bouncing shots.
The Turret itself, it very well armored as well, with areas being 300-400 mm thick, it would be a hulldown monster as it has a 10° gun depression, however the Turret becomes very weak relatively quickly so shooting the turret on the most outer part may result in a pen.
In addition, the side of the hull is only 30mm which can be overmatched by most guns it meets.
The gun would be a 105mm gun with average penetration for tier 8.
And if you think that this sounds very OP, don’t forget that things like gun characteristics and ground resistance can be nerfed to make it more balanced against same tiered tanks.
Tier 9: VFZ 69 Variante D
Normally known as Panzer 74 from my former articles, VFZ 69 is it’s first name from 1969 when the first design was proposed. Armor would be as follows: 250 mm Frontal turret armor, 100 mm side turret armor and almost nothing on the rear.
Hull would be 120-150mm on the front ( there are no armor numbers given for the hull, this is pure guesswork) and 35ish on the side of the hull.
It would have the option to mount a 105mm L7, a 110mm gun and the famous 120mm L11 chieftain gun.
In addition to that it would have multiple engines propelling 46 tons of tank, the engine which i try to get WG to actually implement would be a 750hp engine which would give it a hp/ ton ratio of 16 hp/ton and a top speed of around 68 km/h
Tier 10 VFZ 69 Variante F
Same as Tier 9, however it would have a bigger turret and a hydropneumatic suspension.
About Premium tanks:
Since Switzerland did trials on the Tiger II it would only make sense to add that vehicle as a premium tank. Only problem i currently have is the glorious idea from WG to make that exact Tiger II variant a tier 7 german premium.
Don’t mind the gun, it’s a damaged gun.
Also said Tiger is currently getting Restored to full working order.
I approve of the second disclaimer about Swiss and Swedish not being the same country, many facepalms have been had when they are mixed up.
oath
Can’t believe this kind of disclaimer has to be made… rofl
You would be amazed how many younglings dont really now or care about geography…
For instance, Portugal is the oldest nation-state of Europe. However, many still refer to Iberia as Spain…
(facepalm)
Portugal isn’t th oldest state in Europe
DENNIS EVLOGIEV SAYS yes it is, it is the only European country which its borders haven’t changed for over 800 years, most other European countries had been assimilated by others, ceasing existence for a while, or had parts of its territory taken by other countries, specially in central and eastern Europe but also France and Italy that at some point had its territory divided (England occupied northern France, Spain occupied parts of Italy)
even when Portugal was left whitout a king and the closest heir was some king in Spain (Castile, Leon, etc…) they never assimilated the territory, one example was Felipe II of Spain that became Felipe I of Portugal as well, because back then the Pope had a lot of authority and it had been a previous Pope to recognize Portugal first King right to rule, based on his military exploits in expelling the muslims and that he told the Pope to have received a mission/revelation from Christ, the spanish had no authority to extinguish a Kingdom recognized by the Church
this is why its borders remain the same for over 800 years, the longest/oldest in Europe
HELDERMARTINS1 well, saying Portugal is part of Iberia is also wrong, Iberia was the ancient name Romans and others used for part of the spanish territory, the portuguese territory was never part of Iberia but part of Lusitania, in fact part of central-western Spain was in the past part of Lusitania while for Portugal only its original territory (Condado Portucalense) was part of Gallaecia (Galicia), since Iberia was roughly as big as Lusitania a different name should have been given instead of Iberian Peninsula, it’s a name that forgets both portuguese and almost half of spanish culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Portugal_(1807)
Napolean invaded and occupied portugal in 1807 it was the British which helped evict him and ultimately beat him at Waterloo..
REAPER NO WEAPER so? they invaded but never controlled the territory, in fact they attacked »» were expelled »» attacked again »» got kicked out again
it’s true, that’s why they are known as 1st and 2nd invasions, it even caused Napoleon to lose confidence in the leader of the first invasion
the territory was never devided and the borders never changed since the war was still raging, Portugal remained Portugal throughout the occupation, as far as I know a occupation army was kept in Portugal by neither did Napoleon claim the territory under his name (would become part of france) and neither “gave” it to someone he trusted just like he did with Spain, by having his brother become king of Spain for a while
either way the truth still stands that the portuguese continental borders (excluding overseas territories of course) have not changed for over 800 years
more info on the Peninsular War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_events_of_the_Peninsular_War
you can call it Sir Arthur Wellesley (1st Duke of Wellington) training grounds for the victory in Waterloo, at some point he was nominated the acting governor of the portuguese territory by the portuguese King, he was given powers similar to a regent
Well, just remember that there are many readers who may strugle to read english text. And to those people both “swiss” and “swedish” may sound simmilar. Its the same with “austrian” and “australia”. Those are all foreign words for many people, and well, they can be mixed up, can’t they? It’s not like people don’t know that those are different countries.
Oh that’s amazing, that Museum is just North Of Zurich. I cant wait to see/hear how the restoration goes.
thanks for the hard work, Mizutayio. These tanks look great, very interested in the tier 9 and 10. A combination of hydropneumatic suspension and a 120mm L/11? That puts a tingle in my trousers.
Anything available for a full TD or SPG line? Or would they also be mini-branches off the LT line?
I’ll be talking about the SPGs last as not many people are to eager about SPGs as a whole., but there certainly is a line
fair enough reason, I look forward to it
Actually, this seems to be a more pleasant line to grind.
Mizutayio pardon my rhetoric question ….Why the hell we do not have this in game already ?
Thank you for your effort, the lines both med and heavy look sweet. Let’s hope that someone out there has some minimal brain activity this push this asap
To put it simply: ask WG
Ask wargaming please Mr. Mitzutayio!!! Hope they won’t screw them up the way they screwed up the Swedish heavies….😔
But wait. Weren’t there more Panzer 74 variants?
Well Hull version T and H which is just Torsion bar or hydropneumatic.
Then there’s the turrets from Variante A to F, but for WoT there’s only 2, big turret, or small turret. Everything else is not crucial for WoT and really only would have been used irl to find the best combination of Fire control systems.
Well and there’s the honeywell proposal of which i don’t know a single thing other than the obvious fact that it was a proposal by honeywell.
excuse me but from where did the 110mm gun come? indigenous project? bought from the Czechs?
also
how did/would compare with L7?
Britisch 110mm gun project. Wether it was a successor to 105mm L7 or the predecessor, i don’t know.
Uh… reads more like a heavier medium line rather than bona fide heavy line tbh… but whatevs.
i dont really think this will work, but you already knew that. I really think you need to domore research before you can propose a viable heavy line.
I spare me the research when WG is likely gonna throw my efford out of the window, you know what they’re capable of.
I will do research for the sake of doing historical research, but for WG, i think that’s more than enough.
Polish tanks, Hungarian tanks, Swiss tanks…
I’m waiting for the Rwanda Burundi line.
You will have to wait, Icelandic TD’s are next.
In all seriousness, I would love to have these thanks in game and the proposals give me something to look up for the next couple days.
@DENNIS EVLOGIEV
If you say so. 😉
Oh yah more reskinned tanks… borrrrinnggggg!!
Are u on drugs, dude?
Swedish?
What exactly would those two differences on the X mean for it’s characteristics? Better turret armor or just better gun stats? Would the engine still be the same? I guess my problem here is that the IX looks very powerful and the X doesn’t distinguish much from its predecessor, kind of like how the Type 4 and 5 used to be in their initial release states.
Also what gun in the game would you say is the most similar to the 105 on the KW 50?
Tiger II’s top gun
oh and the difference between tier 9 and 10 is better gun stats for one and the possibility for a hydropneumatic suspension. While tier 9 would get a normal torsion bar suspension.
You offer up a fine selection of tanks sir. WG could learn a few things from you. Thank you for your hard work.
Fcuk, yeah!
Again – awesome unique vehicles. Bring those in game naow! 😉
If someone here has some influence on WG, please at least show them this info!
As I said earlier and pardon my lack of knowledge about the really nice swiss tanks, this should have been added to the game a long time ago way before chinese/cz/jap heavy trees. All we can do is spam the forum threads about this but looks like forum people are not interested in this new content but only in whining
Nice article mate, i raise a cup of joe to your hardwork..
That tier 7’s turret looks cute and the overall line could work, hopefully WG put Switzerland’s line into consideration..
“Don’t mind the gun, it’s a damaged gun.”
Oooh, give the tank a unique “Damaged 88mm l/71” with appropriately nerfed characteristics, and make it a tier *6* premium.
😛
Possibly the British 110mm for the Panzer 74 variants as well (WG could also look to add it to all L7 armed tanks as that was the intention for the 110mm when it was first developed) and if WG ever introduces Smoothbore they also looked at 120mm, 142mm and 152mm smoothbore guns for the Pz74 (the Leo 2’s gun, the AMX-30 ACRA’s gun and the M551 Sheridan/M60A2 Starship’s main gun respectively). Mizutayio, did the Swiss ever consider importing heavy tanks; I’m thinking the AMX-50 if any, I can’t see the the Conqueror/M103 being of much interest. Will you look at a TD line and an Artillery line for the Swiss? Sorry one more question, was there any collaboration between Sweden and Switzerland as two neutral democracies; sandwiched between NATO and the Warsaw Pact after 1945, though the terrain of two countries is obviously very different, they had one could argue similar interests in developing armoured vehicles for self defence and in at least the early post war years, they did not adopt NATO standard calibres.
It is the british 110mm gun.
Other gun options which were considered to be mounted on Panzer 74 but which i didn’t mention were the german 105mm and 120mm smoothbore guns, the French 142mm ACRA and 152mm XM150 from the MBT 70.
Also it’s hard to say about the heavy tanks, there are Documents on M103, Conqueror and Caernarvon ind the archives, i didn’t look at them yet though. So it could be possible that switzerland considered buying either of them, but don’t count on it.
Good Work @Mizutayio 😀
eifach geil
This is really super interresting.. Maybe too interesting? I mean, what would the interrest of the meds comparer to those big guns, fast and ok-armored tanks ?? :/
Anyway, amazing job as always !
VFZ 69 VARIANTE D 68 km/h ?? yea right! 250 mm front armor and 120-150 hull…
WG would never give it that top speed :p maybe 45-50 with overall mediocre mobility