Thank you everyone for your questions mostly staying on topic. I’ve been working on stuff for Italy for quite some time now and most of it can be seen/reviewed on the WoT NA forum at http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/200193-italian-tanks-and-military-vehicles/ I apologise if I haven’t answered your questions perhaps completely. I;ve done my best to illustrate and answer your questions and hopefully like me you all look forward to a separate, distinct and interesting Italian tree. – Vollketten
LEGGASIINI SAYS: Waaaiiitt, is Italian tech tree coming?
A: Let’s hope, it’s long overdue. So ‘eventually’
RYUZAKON (@AREG999) SAYS: Sooo… they explode at the start of the battle ?
A: Don’t be stupid
RON FUCKING JOHNSEN SAYS: Is there any way for a heavy line? If not, for how many tiers do they have HTs?
A: There are heavy tanks, proper heavy heavies looking like the NbFz at the low tiers but to make a line of heavies you’d need to add a German Tiger (of which Italy received a single example for a short period before the September 1943 Armistice), the M.60A1 (which OTO Melara build lots of under licence and the ‘Kpz 70’ for which Italy took some part in the development work. So it is possible I suppose but unlikely and a bit of a hodge podge. I don’t really like the way a heavy line would have to look at upper tiers so heavies would be just half a line at the moment to keep things sensible. The lack of a heavy line doesn’t disqualify a nation from having tree in the game but having one certainly would help.
OTO Melara turret model for autoloader for KPz-70 (photo may be a reverse image but this is how it was published) A rig was later built to test fire this system but was fed in the same manner as the OTO Centauro suggesting both systems are linked development wise.
OOPSAA SAYS: New SPG line?
A: Despite Italy being able to make a full line of SPG’s it is highly unlikely in my opinion that WG will add any new SPG’s at all based on the current game dynamics and recently there was even a comment that if the new changes to the way artillery works in game didn’t work out that it could get removed completely. Simple answer is that Italy could make one line of artillery if required with the game mechanics and if WG abandon SPG’s then a couple could be recycled for other roles in the tree.
DRACO90 SAYS: I know that Italian tanks where almost copycats of other nations, except for some “carro pesante” (HT) FIAT. But i can only think at medium tanks (Panther, Patton, Leopard for tier 7 to 10). But this is the Question: which special characteristic will the Italian tech tree will have respect the “original” tanks? (eg: i know OTO Melara developed a prototype for a Leopard with autoloader)
A: The mainstay of WW2 tanks for Italy were the L6 light and the M.13 series of medium tank and Semovente based from them. None of those designs is suitable to be described as copies of other nations tanks. The CV.3 could be said to have derived from the Carden-Loyd carrier and the Ansaldo 12t was actually a British design but that’s as far as you can go.
NOOBGONEBAD SAYS: How many lines could Italian tech tree produce?
Will the heavy line end with Il Duce super heavy?
Will the P43 tank be a medium or a heavy class?
What other interesting tanks did they have
A: Il Duce super tank is pure fantasy and has no place in the game, the P.43 is technically a heavy tank P=Pesante = heavy. A tank used for the assault but by the time it got built its really on a par with the medium tanks of other nations so for game purposes it’s a choice of keeping it as a heavy but at a lower tier where the the armour will make it feel heavy which is frankly a waste. My preference is to keep the name and the heavy feel of the vehicle but as a medium which makes more sense for game purposes.
As for how many lines. At the moment it’s a single medium line, a light line possible if you extend to 1970 cut off a bit, an SPG line (which is likely not wanted), depending on whether you’d be prepared to see a couple of SPG’s reclassed at TD’s or not then a TD line is also doable again if you extend the date into the 70’s. Heavy line would in my opinion be a bit too odd just yet but the low tier heavies should still be included.
The most interesting Italian vehicles are the Semovente based on the medium (and later planned on the P) chassis. I think the P43bis will be the most interesting tank for the majority of players though.
Constructors model of Carro P.43bis
MUHAMAD ADHI SAYS: Do you have idea for food consumables beside Pasta or Pizza?
JUST CALL ME ZO SAYS: Is the premium food consumable going to be “Lotsa Spaghetti”? (LuigiMemeFace.jpg)
MALKAVIAN SAYS: Premium: Canned Sardines and Red Wine
A: In WW2 (the primary focus and interest of the game for me at least) Italian army food rations were stamped with the Initials ‘AM’ which officially stood for ‘Amministrazione Militare’* but was generally known as ‘Asino Morto’ (Dead Donkey). The Germans had their own ‘Old Man’ canned rations knew ‘AM’ as ‘Armer Mussolini’ (In Italian this is ‘Povero Mussolini) which means ‘Poor Mussolini’ and probably attests to the relatively horrible nature of the canned product.Other military canned foods are sardines, tuna, tomatoes and even cheese and the main staples were bread and dry pasta. In North Africa the allies recorded capturing plenty of supplies of fruits as well. Obviously Italy is also famous for its coffee and chocolate but as the Germans have chocolate and French the coffee already the Italian need something different. It is not good enough simply to have ‘extra combat rations’ as those are the Soviet Consumable and ‘Improved rations’ are the Chinese one. I’d recommend we have ‘bread and tuna’ or ‘tomatoes and cheese’ or variations thereof for Italy in place of the rather more stereotypical Italian foods.
* ‘I Servizi Logistici delle Unità Italiane Al Fronte Russo 1941-1943’
ANDRÉ SILVA SAYS: Question: What will be the strength and weakeness of the Italian tech tree?
ANONYMOUS SAYS: What is the general traits of the italian tech tree
A: I recall seeing comments from WG that they don’t try to give set characters to tree’s although the Russian tree tends to focus on armour and the German for example more so on accuracy. It’s hard to say what the character of the Italian tree would be. I’d like to think of the tree having a character of good camouflage as in the main the vehicles are small (Fiat 2000 notwithstanding), excellent rate of fire; guns like the 47mm were very fast and the high maneuverability of the vehicles. The downside is going to be the armour, even the ‘heavy’ tanks don’t have heavy levels of armour.
ALESSANDRO_ITA SAYS: I get some documents about P45 tank a secret project about after P40bis tank in Italy! I live in Rome and if Volketten or SS want to talk with me I leave my mail: […]
A: I’ll email you Alessandro.
MARC SAYS: A Couple of questions
– Will there be new maps coming with an italian/mediteranian scene. Last years a couple of two of these maps where omitted from the game (south coast/ provence).
– Will the italians have some cool unique game mechanics (like the swedish td line). E.g temporay boost functions (rapid fire / faster traverse / ultra good camo while moving / better ground resistance/ increase change to set the enemy on fire) to make the tanks differ from the german/US lines.
– Off topic: Is there a posibility to have a second campain of personal missions which is more nation related then tank class. Where progression can be the failsafe when missions are to tough (after +300 tries of the mission its gets a little easier)
FOLGORE SAYS: and a western desert map or historic senario in the western desert or el haluf based map can happen!
A: Maps – I have no idea about maps sorry but an ‘Italian’ map would be a nice addition. Something historical with Roman ruins or elements of the Gothic line, or the rolling terrain of Sicily would be excellent. Mechanics wise they don’t need anything new or special like siege mode but IF WG ever get around to fixing HESH shell mechanics in game then Italy would benefit from this change too which would increase the hitting power of most of the guns they’d use, particularly at low tiers. I’ve no idea about personal missions, I gave up on them in game ages ago as they were seriously dull/silly. More and better maps are needed in general, fewer corridors please.
ARTHUR WELLSLEY SAYS: Do you still agree (as I do) that it is tier IX OTO/Melara M47 Patton II, and tier X OTO Leopard/Centauro (with the auto loader). Or do you agree with Spidergrenadier who puts them the other way around?
Have you spoken to Spidergrenadier (who I guess is Italian)
A: Regarding the OTO Centauro (the ‘paper’ autoloading Leopard) she’s a fine option for a Tier 10 Medium tank except that she’d basically be the same or better than the equivalent German non-autoloading Leopard tank which seems a little unfair somehow. The other option would be the actually constructed Lion tank which is essentially the pre-decessor of the OF-40, she is still very Leopardy but no autoloader and the welded turret is nicely distinctive from the cast turret of the Leopard. She was ready in the factory by about 1974/5. The M.47 and OTO Melara rework of it with M60 tank elements and 105mm gun is best suited in my opinion to Tier 9 and should it be needed as there were a ton of engines and other modules etc. for it even as the Tier 8 albeit without the 105mm gun. Hopefully spidergrenadier will pm me on the NA forum.
OTO Melara Lion tank on trials
GETFOCHED SAYS: What will be the standard emblem on the tank
MARLEKIN SAYS: I hope Volketten can shed some light on the paintjobs and emblems the Italians vehicles will have available.
A: Emblem – White cross. The flag for the tree should be the modern tricolour Italian flag rather than the WW2 era one or RSI version. There’s hundreds of historical decals, logo’s, and inscriptions for the vehicles too which allow the players a nice range of legitimate and accurate personalisation. That’s not to mention a boatload of distinctive camouflage options too.
KINDABRUH SAYS: Tier X LTs I mean
A: As far as I know to make the Italian Light line reach Tier 10 would require the use of some paper designs from the late 1970’s which are out of WoT’s official time frame. See last question.
ALHAMBRA117 SAYS: Console version have confirmed the development of a Mercenary branch which will include those nations which cannot form historical trees or branches on their own. This is likely to include Italian tanks. Do you expect this will be the direction WG PC will take for “minor” nations and would you be happy for Italian vehicles to be introduced in this way
A: I personally hate the idea of a mercenary branch for a variety of reason not least of which is from a historical standpoint, that said I’ve never played the console version but I know if has some differences to the main PC game. I’d be very unhappy for Italy to be introduced like that just like I’d be unhappy to see them parcelled off lazily into a single branch of medium tanks in some horrible Euro combined tree.
FYOUTOO SAYS: Why on God’s green earth should development time be spent on a new tree from a country with little tradition of armored warfare, as opposed to new maps?
A: You’re clearly not familiar with WW2 are you
RAUL SAYS: Could we see wheeled vehicles?
WATCHING SAYS: any chance italian get a new mechanic in order to differentiate them from other nationalities. alternatively adding wheeled vehicles in order to add the Centauro would be sweet too. (they did test them in the WW I memorial special)
A: Taking your second point first, yes they did test them and they worked fine. Italy is very well placed for wheeled vehicles and has many designs which could be incorporated if needs be. There’s even a couple of armoured half tracks too.
Breda 52 truck with 90/53 mounted.
ENIGMATICMUFFIN SAYS: will we see a kind of turretless light tank line with Italy’s famous tankettes?
A: I’m unashamed to say I love the CV.3. I know they are small and unturretted (apart from the ‘Rossini ‘version) I know they are lightly armoured but they are very fast, very maneuverable and really really small. Historically it was by a large margin the most heavily produced of all Italian armour so it makes zero sense to not include them. I hope not to see the boring and rather ugly Fiat 3000 at the tier 1 even if it’s the easy and lazy placing for it. A CV.3 capable of carrying the 20mm AT rifle (including the automatic version), 20mm Cannon, or the short 37mm gun would be a fun light tank starter. Not including one or two version
JORG2 SAYS: What would be the hardest hitter? Is there a high tier td candidate, and is it post war?
A: Well to touch on one of the other questions if the 155mm gun for the SPG’s is permitted reused in the direct fire role getting slammed by that would definitely bring the hurt. After that there’s always the automatic 102mm gun as well. Italy does have the advantage that nearly all its AT guns were considered for tank use so there’s a large variety of gun options including many automatic versions for most tanks without straying far from what was used or actually fitted.
Ansaldo 102mm gun during recoil testing
RAD FROOD 25 SAYS: Would it be just one line with low tier Branches/High Tier Branches? Or would it be multiple lines that merge into one tank?
A: No, it wouldn’t work like that, the sensible way for WG to deliver an Italian tree would be the release of a premium tanks first followed by a Medium branch – this allows the popularity or otherwise of the tree to be seen and when (I am confident people will like them)
IRON SAYS: Did you find a proper option for tier 8, something really original rather than the highly speculative “Pantera”?
And I’m also wondering.. Will the pesante tanks be HT or MT ?
Last question: Is they’re à possibility to have italian TDs in the game ?
A: I think it’s fair to say tier 8 medium has proved a headache for Italy. It’s the most important tier in game too and it is less than ideal to use the Italian licence built Panther to fill the gap. Italy did get licences to produce Panthers and Panzer III and IV in Italy but no complete vehicles were ever produced.
MARCOPOLLETTO SAYS: 1) when will we see the italian tech tree? 2) if it exists, will the TD line end with Tier X medium? or maybe WG will use wheeled vehicles, (like centauro prototypes) as TDs? 3) Italy has a lot of low tier tanks… how many tanks we will see?
A: We will see it when WG gets to it, they seem preoccupied with other things at the moment but I’m told that WG see WoT as a very long term project so I guess they feel less urgency in their introduction than I do. Simple answer is that unless WG do something really really dumb and lazy like just rip the medium branch out of the tree and mix it with something like Yugoslavia or Poland just for the sake of making a tree then it will be 1-2 years.
EL DIABLO SAYS: Will the Fiat 2000 be the tier 1 instead of the Fiat 3000 Renault clone? Or could they be a two tier one nation where the Fiat 2000 goes up a heavy subline and the Fiat 3000 goes up the light to medium line, with of course a tank destroyer line off the lights.
And how will the tanks be designated? As the Italian light medium and heavy (p40 called heavy when it really only compares to a panzer 4) or will it be like the Chinese chi ha where it’s labeled as modern designation, where their mediums are also lights and their heavy is a medium.
A: Well I hope not. Not because i like the Fiat 3000 in any way but because the Fiat 2000 can work as a heavy, a big ugly heavy but a heavy nonetheless
ICELANDIC BANANA SAYS: Is there anyway that 50% of the tech tree will be real tanks that at least made it to prototype/testing phase? Or should I say, aren’t complete fiction.
A: The goal is 100% produced equipment but that’s not going to be possible. After that you have proposed ‘let’s fit this gun’ or ‘lets fit this engine’ type ideas then down to ‘paper’ vehicles, vehicles which never left the designers studio. If you have a choice in a tier between a mass produced production vehicle and some obscure paper design or mockup then the priority should be for that vehicle with the ones requiring the invention of some data best suited to premium type use.
“LIGHT” TANK-PLAYER SAYS: How do you think the Carro Armato L6/40 would fit in, if at all?
Do you think the CV-33 CC would be able to work in WoT?
A: It would be a bizarre state of affairs to miss either of those vehicles out as they formed such an important part of Italian armour during WW2. CV.33 CC with 20mm cannon would work fine despite the lack of a turret, fast, low and tiny it’s going to be a hard target to hit. L.6/40 is larger obviously with a turret and takes not only the 20mm Breda but can take the short 37mm too. Both tanks are ideally suited to low tier light tank status.
WHEELEDTANK SAYS: What exactly would the Tier X Medium tank be? Would it be the Autoloading Leopard design, the OF-40 (If it isn’t considered too Modern), or some other archived project?
A: OF-40 is too new for WG time frame, the earlier ‘Lion’ is much closer and nicely different to the German Leopard. In my opinion the Lion would make the best fit for the Tier 10 medium even though it’s past the 1970 cutoff. It at least reached prototype stage whereas the autoloader Leopard was just a paper proposal.
SHIFTYONE SAYS: Will the Semovente 90/53 be a tank destroyer or an artillery piece? (I’ve read that it was used for both roles) Or would only tanks destroyers like the Semovente M42 da 75/34 be considered in the tank destroyer tree? It would be interesting to see the Semovente 90/53 as a tank destroyer with artillery capabilities, being balanced by how it can only carry 6 rounds. What are you thoughts on this?
A: 90/53 is a tank destroyer which could also be used for indirect fire. Semovente M42 etc. would likerwise be tank destroyers – there’s no need for them as artillery as we have a full line of SPG’s which is likely going to be unused anyway. If anything the sdtripping of SPG’s from the game helps Italy as despite removing a branch of artillery it provides more options for the TD branch.
Semovente 90/53 resplendent in sand and spinach camo
SETH HILL SAYS: Will there be a Poland tree?
A: I hope so. I mean I’m not Polish but they do have some interesting tanks. I don’t know enough about Polish stuff to know if they can make a tree or not. Even if they can only get a single medium line I’d like to see it.
NRNSTRASWA SAYS: Looking forward to the Italian line. The M15/42 looks pretty good. About time Italy was considered for inclusion.
A: It was a very respectable tank, just that it was outclassed by the time it entered service.
VADIM DIDENKO SAYS: Branch of the fighter tanks waiting?
A: Fighter tanks? Sorry I don’t understand.
VADIM DIDENKO SAYS: The Ariane artillery set is suitable as a GMC or SPG for the game?
A: There’ the prototype Ariane and the final design which is slightly different which are ideal as SPG’s. IF however, there are to be no more SPG’s then I don’t know if such a thinly armoured vehicle with a 155mm gun could be a high tier TD in game. The OTO ‘Automatic’ SPG with the drum autoloader might find a role reused as a TD and the SP-70 (a tripartite SPG project from the 70’s) would suit too. The SP-70 being based on a tank chassis would be much more suitable as the Tier 10 TD in those circumstances.
LANDSERLANDSA SAYS: Will we see german tanks in italian service? Maybe as premiums? Like pz4 or Panther. Not sure if they ever got tigers but i doubt it.
A: Italy received a dozen Panzer IV and a dozen Stug’s and a single Tiger tank operated by Italian forces. There were production contracts exchanged and mooted/discussed for the Panzer III, Panzer IV, and Panther. German tanks are very popular and a premium ‘German’ vehicle for Italy would be a very nice addition especially as they could use some of the range of SPA and other engines and modifications to make them vary in playstyle.
Panzer IV in Italian Service
ANODJL SAYS: Hello, i am french and i use google trad to speak here, sorry,
The Fiat 2000 heavy tank can be used in tier I? Start with a heavy tank would give an unprecedented originality. And it would remain better than an Italian version of the FT, there are already 3 on WOT in tier I
A: There are no Tier 1 heavies at the moment and I don’t think it will happen. WG don’t seem particularly interested in low tier content despite the unique appearance of the Fiat 2000. The turret gun for it is decent but its the mobility which lets it down. The later version with 37mm guns in each corner would be phenomenally amusing if WG ever get round to multigun/turret support. I’m with you wholeheartedly is hating the Fiat 3000. It is basically just another FT clone and adds nothing interesting to Tier 1, nothing different, and the 47mm gun fitted is way too good for tier 1 anyway requiring it to be nerfed in performance to the effect that it’ll then undermine tier 3 and 4 medium tanks. Using the Fiat 3000 as tier 1 is lazy and boring and not even necessary as there are other options instead. The only historical validity for it is obviously the production and service of them but it didn’t actually lead to anything, the design was a dead end and dumped in favour of a different system following British design more than French.
Fiat 3000 – [boring FT clone]
The draft and concept of P.75 are sufficient to be heavy tanks in Tier II and III
A: The P.75 ‘a’ ‘b’ and ‘c’ concepts are big and slow and nicely different but are probably too well armed to be able to function well at tier II. The Ansaldo 9t/12t is better suited to a Tier II heavy tank with the Fiat 2000 as a premium because it is so significant of a vehicle and then leading into a bunch of the early P.75 heavies.
The Italian M26 Pershing can not have the experimental equipment that the M26 US possesses, noting the guns, since these equipment have not been used on the Italian M26,
By taking this into account, the Italian Pershing M26 can be set in Tier VII?
A: The M26 Pershing in Italian service did have a couple of minor modifications, for example one of the front hull positions was eliminated and the hatch welded shut and episcope removed. There’s the possibility (unverified) than some were planned to be retrofitted with the 90mm Cockerill gun but they were a short term fix for Italy and mostly ended up being used for turret fortifications only. If you look at those turrets carefully some have very large rubber boots over the base to stop water ingress.
M.26 turret fortification with rubber boot around the base inside it’s camouflaged building
Question 3: Wargaming can accept that a tank branch be stopped before the tier X? I think especially the heavy tanks or the TD Italian
A: Tier 9 and 10 are really the most profitable for WG as people spend cash/gold to convert XP to get those vehicles. That’s why the artillery was extended to tier 10 and the same with the light tanks. Without reuse of SPGs in the TD role Italy atm can’t make a full branch of TD’s but it could if that was one. Same with heavies but as I say that would be a strange branch to get to tier 10, the selling point for even this incomplete heavy branch would be the variety and historical interest they provide.
CURSEOFDEATH SAYS: Hello,
I would like to know if there will be a Tank Destroyers line, what will be their caracteristics and what are their place in the introduction queue ? (of course the last 2 questions are to be answered if the first question’s answer is positive).
Thanks for forwarding my question to the devs,
A: tank destroyers main trait will be stealth, they are small and low, none have heavy armour. Being fan of the CV.3 light tank I’d like to see the CV.2 with 20mm Solothurn as an option but also the CV.3 with the 47mm mounted. After that you can have the L.6 (M.6) based 75mm vehicle. Small, light fast with a ‘derpy’ gun in the turret. Not a lot of armour but a lot of firepower.
CV.3 with casemate mounted 20mm Solothurn cannon
CV.3 modified to mount the 47mm gun behind a small gun shield
L.6 (M.6) hull modified to take turret and 75mm gun
ALESSANDRO_ITA SAYS: We will see tier 11 and our OF-40 in Italian tech tree?
A: It’s too late and too advanced, even the Mk.I
CAPTIANNEMO2001 SAYS: How did you solve the long standing Medium lines Tier 7/8/9 area for the Italian Tree… we have discussed it to death over the past 3 years but I don’t recall what you mentioned on it.
A: Hi Nemo, tier 7 can be met by the P.43 bis and Tier 9 by the Oto Melara version of the M47, this is the one with the 105mm gun and M60 components. Tier 8 is now as it has been for too long the sticking point. Options included an Italianised Panther but with a liberal use of buffing elements as to the gun and performance. I’m not in favour of that as although it is easily done it is not historically accurate. The Italian Panther would be tier 7 material but as we have an Italian Tier 7 so in my opinion it is best suited to a premium Panther atm. Tier 8 then remains the ‘hole’ and a very significant one. As a result I see no option other than the M47 itself. There are still plenty of engine options short of the top ones for the Tier 9 version and other 90mm gun variations too. The visual differences from the US M47 are very minor but the US tree doesn’t have an M.47 anyway and they hardly used it as they mostly went to export. It might not be the most exciting solution but it is solidly historical and doesn’t impinge on anything else. It’s not like the US needs the tank anyway.
Italian M.47 prior to OTO upgrading with 105mm gun etc.
Upgraded M.47 by OTO Melara
J (@WOTPLAYER203) SAYS: What tank could be the Italian tier 8, yet also be original? Other people say it is impossible thanks to post war laziness.
A: As above but to rectify the ‘laziness’ point you make. Post war Italy was broke. Financially crippled by war and simply didn’t need to produce any tanks. They were supplied essentially for nothing by the US and UK so why would they even need to build any? So when Italy does get around to looking at obtaining foreign tanks and trials the Leopard and Centurion then the USA managed to supply vehicles and licences etc. It really didn’t make sense to build tanks when the US provided them.
LAGG SAYS: Will there be an ice cream truck and a certain Italian captain with a cock feather hat and new medals for washing Fiats.
[if you don’t know you need to watch Allo’ Allo’]
FOLGORE SAYS: i would be very interested in the TD line , more so the semovente lines , the swiss ” ikea ” tds fire heat so can these and the 75/18 did
A: Yes it did, the AP shell from the 75/18 isn’t very good as the muzzle velocity is fairly poor. The EP (Effetto Pronto) and EPS (Effetto Pronto Speciale) rounds were very interesting. There is some overlap between the use if the names of those shells but the ‘EP’ is basically a soft nosed type high explosive shell with a base fuze. Sort of half way between the description of (for lack of a better description) a type of HESH round and a HEAT round. Currently WG HESH mechanics are garbage despite being provided with a very thorough review of available technical data on how HESH works to fix the problem so is best served to be modelled in game as a HEAT round of lower performance. (EPS was an improvement over EP) The EPS was only available historically in very limited numbers but was a shaped charge ‘HEAT’ round more than capable of taking on enemy armour. As both EP and EPS are explosive filled rounds a logical ammo layout for Italian vehicles (even for the 47mm gun armed vehicles) would be AP/EPS/EP which would provide a boost to the firepower of the vehicles.
(Mizutayio: Why do people still mix up Sweden and Switzerland, Sweden = swedish, Switzerland = swiss)
Left to Right – APCBC/HE, APHE, EP (HEAT), EPS (HEAT)
ANONYMOUS SAYS: Will there be interesting td with turret… same q about arty. And will there be supermassive ht.. like japanese for exmple. Tnx
A: The chances of something huge like the Magrini coming are next to zero honestly. The lack of multi gun multi-turret support is partially to blame but the lack of data on it and the sheer size don’t help. There’s a couple more over-large designs including some crazy early stuff which don’t fit with the game at all sadly. I’m not a great fan of those ‘supermassive’ hit guns in general. The KV-5 for example is notorious and popular in equal measure for being too powerful and some of the Japanese data had to be ‘fudged’ anyway which is something I’d like to avoid for Italy too. If we find more data then the GL-4 might be doable as its a much more reasonable size and definitely ‘different’.
OLIVER SF SAYS: 1 There are numerous emblems are avaliable for italian tanks. In your opinion, which will be the standard emblem paint on tanks?
2 Number of crews in high tier tank such as OTO leopard.?
3 In your opinion, are they competitive in global map campiagn and e-sport?
4 which one is the most suitable candidate for tier 1 such as CV-33 and Fiat-3000. Also, is it possible to add Fiat-2000 in game?
5 How many branch are possible to achieve tier 10?
6 The general pos and con of italian tanks
Thanks for answer my questions!
- White Cross
- One fewer (3) than the Leopard (4) as the loader is omitted – this would also mean all your 9 tiers of grinding xp on your loader is wasted as you don’t need that crew member at tier 10
- I’ve no opinion on the global campaign, my little experience with the global map was really just observing how corruptly it is manipulated by large clans. There’s only so many tanks of a certain type demanded by that part of the game anyway. I know nothing about e-sport so can offer nothing there sorry.
- Please no Fiat 3000 Tier 1 – its not suited and its boring, CV.3 yes please or Ansaldo 5t or L5 etc. as Tier 1 options would also be fine. Fiat 2000 is needed, its literally one of the most identifiable tanks ever made so omitting it from a tank game makes no sense.
Fiat 2000 – So pretty
- IF you allow just technology to define the analogue limit of tanks rather than an arbitrary cut off date as currently (one which WG has violated several times already) then Italy can make a full light, medium and SPG OR TD line. IF you get liberal with heavies then it can finish a heavy line too but that’s unlikely to be done.
- PROS – variety in game, maneuverability, camouflage, historical interest. CONS – poor armour, stupid internet comments about surrender, perceived lack of interest
PUKALO SAYS: Carro Armato P40 and P43 heavy tank pls
A: yes please, the P.26/40 (P.40) is a very handsome looking tank indeed. For reasons mentioned above don’t expect them to be heavy tanks in a heavy branch
P.26/40 during testing
ANONYMOUS SAYS: Can you honestly ask this: Can we expect any more tanks that will further brake the game’s balance and fairness from the Italian line similar to recent adds into the game? (Eg: Defender, skorp, Oi)
A: Well I hope not, along with Zarax and Raptor we’ve all got our views on how to balance the tree and prevent it from being too strong or too weak. It obviously isn’t ideal to put in a vehicle which is too strong to then have to go and nerf it down later so I have aimed for a rather average tree in general where no single Italian vehicle at any tier in any branch would outclass every other vehicle and also the other way around. The vehicles have to be playable but there’s been enough power creep already. Sadly, power creep really helps to
RIVET COUNTER SAYS: Hi Vollketten, I regularly check your Italian Tanks and Military Vehicles thread on the WoT forums and have noticed that you post on the Landships Forum too. The amount of research you have carried out and collated is very impressive. Do you think there is much more to discover in the archives relating to Italian AFVs and do you have any plans to publish your research in a book or some other form?
I also wondered if you face many problems relating to archival research, such as uncooperative staff, accessibility, cost etc.?
A: There is a lot of information in private family archives in Italy and undoubtedly in the National Archives too but they are hard to access. WW2 is a sensitive subject in Italy. I have brought out many possible avenues to the WG team including recently a trove of documents which would cost a couple hundred euro’s for copies of. They declined and thus the information was either I pay or it goes unfound. I don’t own my own bank unlike WG so I lack their financial resources. Sadly WG research methodology is haphazard at best, and mostly uncoordinated.
SHADOWS1995 SAYS: Which tanks will be top tier,as far as ive seen there were proposals for an autoloading version of the leopard 1 is it true?And,will there be a single med line like the cz have or we will finally see a more complete like with heavies meds and maybe tds?
A: The autoloading Leopard is a nice looking vehicle but is a Leopard. Yes, Italy did operate and manufacture Leopards but should the top medium tank in the tree not be more different than the one in the German tree. Not to mention that autoloaded she’d be better than the existing German Leopard.
SMEK SAYS: What role will the new italian tanks have and how will they influence the game?
A: Influence wise they’d spread the game to not only the third major member of the Axis in WW2 which gives a lot of historical value to the game but also a series of different vehicles to the seemingly endless stream of Russian-clone type tanks. They’d spread the game into a new market too which as WG want WoT to be a very long term endeavour is also a good thing.
BELARUSBALL SAYS: Are there any post war Italian tank destroyers that could be candidates for tier 7-10?
A: Post war Italy did very little tank development due to the ready availability of US tanks. Don’t forget that as a NATO member there was only supposed to be a couple of standard NATO tanks anyway which already existed. It’s certainly not that Italy weren’t aware that their post war fleet (initially of various types of Sherman’s and Stuarts) were outdated, they tried hard to sell them off to places like Israel. Italy was invested in the Europanzer project with Germany and France too initially although their exact role isn’t fully explained.
Some of the first post war tanks Italy received on parade 4th of November 1948 in Rome
SPIDERGRENADIER SAYS: Vollketten, have you contemplated late 80s experimental Marder with B1 turret as a TD 10. There’s also a big dispute between OTO Melara MBT and OTO Centauro as MT 10. I would like to contact with you in order to join your work group.
A: There’s quite a few vehicle concepts to fill the top of a light line and the OTO Melara MBT would be a good candidate for that top tier light. It’s small, fast, lightly armoured and decently armed making it a very good option with the previso along with other options that it is past the 1970’s cut off. The OTO Melara MBT is at best a mid to late 1970’s project. I’d prefer not to have the OTO Centauro as the tier 10 light as it would basically be better than another tree’s (Germany) medium tier 10 which wouldn’t work balance wise. Another version of the OTO Melara MBT used a smaller turret and the 60mm HVMS gun or a 90mm piece. Spider – hit me up with a pm on the NA forum and we’ll talk. 🙂
OTO Melara MBT – 105mm autoloader in low profile turret
Alternative OTO Melara project
21 thoughts on “Italian Tanks Q&A with Vollketten”
thank you for answering my questions abouts, maps, personal missions and special mechanics. Any tips on how to constructivally help wg with making the game better. I see that a lot of people complain, but complains are not constructive feedback for wg. Al we need is to inspire wg to do what is best for the game; not only mechanics wise, but also in terms of revenue.
I wish that perhaps both Fiat 2000 and 3000 can fit in the game, perhaps tier 3 heavy premium and tier 2 light premium respectively, they are both important to the Italian tank history.
Irrelevant to this thread, apologies for that, but I just discovered that if you go to change the crew position of a crew member (as you have to on the Swedish lines), you can select the Strv 81 MT…
As for Italians, I think it would be a damn shame if we don’t get these and other, historically serving, tanks simply for lack of higher tiers of their nationality. I’m therefore in favour of a ‘Mercenary’ or ‘Miscellaneous European’ tech tree.
I just realised. We’ll probably never see the Fiat 2000, for the odd reason that it had a crew of 10… What would that do to it’s survivability? How would you display them in the garage? What kind of crew trainer would that make it (all the Radio Operators you could ever need…)?
Of course, the T-35 also had a crew of 10, but that’s a whole other set of problems…
Tortoise had a crew of 7, and O-I had a crew of 11. WG will simply cut the crew down to 6.
I still think AL leopard is viable. Make it a three round autoloader with long interclip (4-5 second), lower DPM than normal leo and slightly worse acc. Actually right now we lack an autoloader with medium to long range capability (TVP is short-medium range harrasser, batchat is close range assasin) and AL Leo should fit like a glove. Bad moving dispersion, long interclip, and trash DPM should make leopard still viable while leo specialize in getting 3 relatively accurate 390 dmg shots in interval of one spotting (+-10 seconds with first shot advantage)
Thanks for the answer to my question, as well as the incredibly well researched information you’ve provided in the answers to other questions. I had no idea the Italian armoured programmes were this extensive, and I agree it would be a crying shame for them to be stuck into the corner of a multi-national line. These will have to be introduced at some point if WG is going to continue past Italy and keep adding new tanks
Thanks for the answers, I want Italy in wot! No more russian clones!
I want the BASSOTTO and our wheeled armoured cars like ab41-42-43 series.
ps. In the fortifications on the border with Yugoslavia, Italy used Sherman’s turrets filled with the italian 76 mm guns and some german 75mm AT gun (7,5 cm pak 40?). (I think we had a lot of ammunition for those guns)
Will we see the Breda 90/53 (and i hope 90/70) guns in tanks?
I think that with Italy used every gun existing to fortify the east front. The sherman’s turret had also 105 mm and other …
Most Interesting. Thanks for the info
I dont think WoT needs new tech tree. Especialy Italian tech tree, full of crapy tanks and copycuts on higher tiers…
Nice work. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.
Come on, with all respect to Italy (I actually find CV.33 and M11-M15 tanks quite sexy), this tree is not going to have anything actually employed or genuine beyond Tier 5. Most of Italy’s notorious tanks are Tier 2-4.
How many more Panthers, Tigers, PzIV’s, M26 and other M4|6,-7,-8 shall we get in the game? I’m quite fed up with those already in. And definitely no need for a Leo1 clone – be it a visually identical one with an autoloader or identical stats-wise with “a nice angular turret”. The point is – it’s damn identical.
You may say “it’s same with Czech tree”. While there are no serial vehicles beyond Tier 4, neither are there Panthers and Pershings. A single clone T-34, which is vastly different from the original one, even coming at a different tier. Something you don’t achieve with an M26 with shiny new front lights and towing hooks on the turret.
Cheers for the question being asked. Sorry if it was a bit bitter and straight up but im concerned about the games taken direction when it comes to balance.
As for the tier I controversy I think it should be F-3000. the 2000 can be a heavy at tier 3 or 4 to maintain to Wgs concept of heavys coming into game as tier5s or sub par tier 4/3s. Its not like tier I is suppose to be the most interesting and most played tier
Thanks for the answers ! Now I’m really curious about what can come up from the P45 Alessandro is talking about !!
And I feel that it could be amazing if you do some kind of an explanation on how the tech tree could look like (tier by tier, with lists of stats or modules..) in your opinion! 🙂
I am far from satisfied with the answer to: “FYOUTOO SAYS: Why on God’s green earth should development time be spent on a new tree from a country with little tradition of armored warfare, as opposed to new maps?”
I am a historian and I am familiar with WW2, and even though I am not as knowledgeable as one would wish with regards to the Italian WW2 performance, I would say that Rommel was not sent to the desert because the Italian performance was brilliant. In point of fact, I find it hard to come up with a single instance of effective use of armoured forces by the Italians. So perhaps you could enlighten me (us)? They certainly build a lot, but most of it was horribly outdated and as far as I can tell, the Italians strongly relied on field guns and armored cars with big guns rather than actual, proper tanks. There is a reason you could probably build three different SPG lines.
Thanks for answering. Too bad the Italians didn’t really get into much post war development like the Germans.
I really do hope people stop their bullshit stereotyping of the Italian military. (Hurr durr Italians only ran away and ate pasta lol hurr durr).
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I asked if you’d consider the Italian proposals for the Finabel specs. I dont see any mention of those here though. Dont you think they might be possible candidates?
Just why? We all know how Italy was famous for its amazing shit tanks.
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