Here i am again with a tech tree showcase. So i got a bit tired of making articles about the Italian WOWP tree and let a few weeks go past without any update. And now when i’m back to this series i’m gonna showcase something completely different. My idea of a Japanese tank destroyer line.
As all of my tree’s i’ve tried to keep the line as historical as possible with as little paper projects as possible. All of the sources for these projects are from the Internet so a lot of known vehicles are to be expected.
Tier 2.
Type 5 Ho-Ru
This small little td is based on the Type 95 Ha-Go tankette and uses the 47 mm gun from the Type 97 Chi-Ha Kai (also known as shinhoto) and will be a fun little td on tier 2 with a great gun. For variety it could get the 75 mm type 99 howitzer found on the Type 2 Ho-I (mixed with the Type 1 Chi-He in WOT). Some says on prototype was made which doesn’t sound unlikely.
Tier 3.
Type 1 Ho-Ni I
This is the first mass produced TD in this line. Its about as tall as a medium tank but has the 75 mm type 90 cannon found on the Type 3 Chi-Nu (irl) with the 75 mm Type 3 (also found on the Chi-Nu) as an upgrade. Its special trait is its awesome gun depression. Not as good as Swedish td’s (irl) but will defiantly be good in game weather historical or not.
Tier 4.
Type 3 Ho-Ni III
Now this is an upgraded variant of the Type 1 Ho-Ni which has a fully enclosed crew compartment along with better and (gun mantle for ex) and a better gun the 75 mm Type 3. Since this thing is fully enclosed it could lead to a second td line in the Japanese tree if we can find more top tier projects. Now its upgraded guns are the 75 mm Type 5 and the Type 91 105 mm howitzer.
Tier 5.
Type 4 Ho-Ro
Back to unarmored territory! This thing will be a tier 5 Kv-2! Now this thing as a vehicle sucks. Its gun dep is only -5 irl and its fairly slow not to mention its armor which is only 25 mm at best. But where is is great is its selection of guns! Now I have given it 1 historical gun and 2 unhistorical ones for variety. Its base gun is an unhistorical 120 mm Short Barrel Gun (found on the O-I exp in game) but you can quickly replace it with its historical gun the 150 mm type 38! This gun has 55 mm of penetration with its HE shell which is 1 mm more than the kv-2 but if you need to it has an AP shell with 60 ish mm of penetration, which can be buffed to a balanced state fairly easy not to mention the obligatory magic HEAT shell. Its other gun is the 105 mm Type 14 gun found on the O-I exp. Now this gun might be considered op on the O-I but on a td like this it would be fairly balanced. This is the only gun on this tank with a good fire rate since its caliber isn’t huge.
(Side note i mainly added this as a td to eliminate the possibility of a jap arty line :D)
Tier 6.
Type 5 Na-To
/Japan/Files/4-SPG/Type4-NaTo/NaTo-01.Tanks.jpg?w=660)
Ladies and Gentlemen let me present the buss! This looks like an old buss with a gun on the top and some tracks. Its default gun is the 75 mm Type 5 but for balance it can get the 105 mm Type 5 gun as an upgrade which it borrows from its brother. I think this gun or something similar was proposed at one point which lead to the development of the tier 7 candidate. Now this thing is now slow but neither fast. Its main trait is its great horizontal gun arc which is similar to the FV215b (183).
Tier 7.
Ka-To
So this is the evolution of the Na-To. The Na-To was obsolete before it was built so Japan started designing a successor based on it. This is a Na-To on steroids. It doesn’t have armor at all but its main gun is a 105 mm Type 5 experimental gun. It can penetrate 150 mm of armor at 1000 m which means a heck of a lot more in WOT distances. It has like the Na-To a very big horizontal gun arc. For gun upgrades it could get the 120 mm naval gun which was tested on the Type2 Ho-I as an anti tank/infantry support type role. This gun to our knowledge didn’t have any dedicated anti tank ammo but since its a naval gun and its intended role was to be able to face tanks AP ammo should exist or where to be developed for it.
Tier 8.
Ho-Ri I
Ho-Ri shiet! XD That term is awesome.This is the real deal. Most people have probably already heard of this thing since it has appeared in other games such as men of war. Its armor is not to bad but for the tier its not that good. It has the same 105 as the Na-To and should therefore get the 120 mm but that gun is technically inferior and i don’t think it should get it since it would just get unhistorically buffed.
Tier 9.
Ho-Ri II
Well this is just a second proposal to the Ho-Ri design and would technically fit better a tier 8 premium but for the sake of filling the tree its here. It has a look similar to the Jagdtiger but much weaker armor. SO where does this improve from the tier 8? Historically it doesnt do that much. The center housing might have improved the mobility a bit due to the weight balance but in game it would just be a Ho-Ri I buffed to be a tier 9. But wait there is more! It gets the ability to upgrade to the tier 10 gun the 105 mm experimental super high velocity anti tank gun. It had a penetration over 300 mm and will be able to destroy any tank on the battlefield.
Tier 10.
Ho-Ri III
Here we are a tier 10. This thing actually has good armor, up to 125 mm of sloped armor according to some sources. This is the first and last Japanese TD in this line with effective sloped armor and it comes with the 105 mm experimental gun which will have some of the best penetration and velocity in the game.
(Update, due to complaints from a certain Swiss man with a yellow hat i have edited the article by removing the 200 mm from the Ho-Ro)
Also as a side note this line is made to be easy to implement since all vehicles in it has tons of known data on them. There are more td projects which can in the end make 2 lines, one armored and one un armored but those projects has little to no data on them (napkin tanks) which hasn’t stopped WG before but has generally gained tons of hate from the community. This is what i personally think is a great line for WG to start with.
You better update that account to enable third party hosting.
Fixed, fuck photobucket
why not imgur then?
I think I heard somewhere that the Ho-Ri II and III had autoloaders, and the blueprint of the Ho-Ri II seems to show a mechanism on the gun.
Nothing ive heard about but if such is the base i bet we will see it ingame.
«This mechanism was known as a semi-automatic loading system, different to the ordinary “autoloader” you see in other vehicles»
source:
http://sensha-manual.blogspot.pt/2016/11/type5-ho-ri-japanese-ferdinand.html
it is the same system used for the Chi-Ri but enlarged for the 10cm gun
from a archive digger
At least 10cm Experimental gun that Ho-Ri was supposed to use had same kind of “semi-automatic loading system” that Chi-Ri 75mm Type5 had.
“Unlike the typical autoloading system, the loading crew of the gun system placed the individual shells on the chamber, the system automatically ramming the shell into the breech and forwarding to operation. This gave the effect of automating half the loading routine.”
I think Japanese TDs can partly make two lines.
And Ho-Ri III is definitely underpower as TierX.
I also make tech tree. My tech tree has some paper plan and a hoax tank, but you can see how many TDs Japan had.
http://i.imgur.com/pHZRyw2.jpg
http://mousoujptechtree.swiki.jp/index.php?%E5%A6%84%E6%83%B3%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E6%88%A6%E8%BB%8A%E3%83%84%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC
That looks interesting, care for a colab?
I’m glad to hear that.
What can I do?
Well contact me on RSR’s discord channel.
No, two TD lines is NOT possible.
There are quite alot of errors and questionable things:
– Ho-I is already in-game Chi-He with top turret and 7.5cm gun mounted
– Why is Ho-Ro tier 6 arty and Ho-Chi tier 3, when Ho-Chi is literally Ho-Ro with superior 15cm howitzer (same as on O-I)?
– Chi-Se was not TD
– Ji-Ro is too weak for tier 6, its essentially Churchill GC with even less armor and O-I Exp’s 10cm…
– What is SS-1? “Medium tank Otsu” and why its TD? Or what is Naval 20cm SPG?
– Sloped armor Ho-Ri I is actually Ho-Ri III
– Type 60 SPRG is not coming. WG said that recoilless rifles are out of game.
>Ho-I is already in-game Chi-He with top turret and 7.5cm gun mounted
I know. deprive chi-he of the gun.
>– Why is Ho-Ro tier 6 arty and Ho-Chi tier 3, when Ho-Chi is literally Ho-Ro with superior 15cm howitzer (same as on O-I)?
In latest research, there are no evidence that 15cm SPH was called Ho-Chi. Meanwhile, it were found that some documents call 10cm SPG as Ho-Chi.
>Chi-Se was not TD
Chi-Se can’t be MT
>Ji-Ro is too weak for tier 6
Ji-Ro can mount 15cm howitzer.
>SS-1
Prototype of 60SPRG mounted 4 barrels.
>Medium tank Otsu
This is early proposal of Chi-Ri. It had no turret.
>Naval 20cm SPG
It’s hoax tank. I think it can be removal. But Ho-Ri III is still underpower.
>– Sloped armor Ho-Ri I is actually Ho-Ri III
Ho-Ri III is made up name in English. In Japanese, Sloped armor Ho-Ri I (ホリI 傾斜装甲型) is more accurate name.
>– Type 60 SPRG is not coming. WG said that recoilless rifles are out of game.
I know. However this WG’s decision is ridiculous. I can understand that guided missile don’t match WoT. But there are no reason to reject recoilless rifels.
I’d love to see the type 60 sprg, it’s the purest definition of glass cannon I can think of and is bound to be fun to play simply due to the nature of the tank itself 😀
perhaps underpowered if compared to the JagdTiger or the casemated E-100 but acceptable if compared to it’s true “opposition” that is the casemated auto-loading Foch (which is set to get a smaller gun, right?)
I love these post, it’s just ashame, basically handing WG a whole branch with most of the work done maybe some tweeking or stuff not on the Internet
Any u know whats funny?? Despite all the work we do to give them a proposed tree, the turd blossoms manage to screw it up…MASSIVELY.
The swedish tech tree says hi 😉
I am pretty sure WG already knows about them all, they are fairly known unlike the case of vehcicles such as the O-I
While KV-2 on tier 6 is somehow balanced, 200mm gun on tier 5 is terrible idea. It would be effectively arty before the overhaul going shotgun mode (the closest examle I can think of right now are the S-51or SU-14-1 with the 203mm gun, and tose are tier 7) just with regular sniper mode available.
Long reload and low accuracy can be frustrating for the driver of the vehicle, moreso if you can face retribution at any moment due to direct line of fire without really having time to do anything. The playstyle would probably be along the lines of “find good, concealed position – fire (and pray to RNGesus for hit) – retreat (and pray you dont get obliberated in the process by everything that can see you)- wait for an eternity to reaload – repeat”.
High damage even on non-penetrating shots, even higher than than of KV-2 tier higher, module and crew damage and the inevitable splash damage if the shot lands nearby will be hated by players on the receiving end just like with arty.
Oh, and let’s not forget it would meet tier 3, where everything has around 200-250 health, with gun that would have around 1000 base damage on HE.
Tier III doesn’t see tier V anymore. So it’s more reasonable.
Well the vehicle itself it complete garbage and would just not work on tier 6. The gun has literally no velocity at all. This vehicle will be a derp weather it is tier 5 or 6. Besides the Na-To is the direct pre evulution of the Ka-To and they fit perfect to be the current tiers they are.
I think in this case, removing the 200mm gun could make it good candidate. While the 150mm gun could still be a stretch, it might be possible to work with it.
Again, I belive putting the largest gun among all non-arty vehicles on a tier 5 can’t possibly work.
Well i think that this vehicle needs to be able to one shot to be able to compete at all. It would make it very unique. But as a lot of people have pointed out it needs to be reworked.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Everytime I kill someone with the Tier5, I going to say HoRO MF
The line looks good but the main problem I see is the Tier 5 choice and the high Tiers.
The Type 4 Ho-Ru is the same tank as the Tier 3 with a different gun and would be better off as either a premium or as the Tier 5 SPG, there is a better choice for tier 5 and it was a concept sketch for a 10.5 cm gun carrier on Chi-Ha chassis with the gun pointed backwards similar to the Archer on the U.K. tree, also another derp tank at tier 5 wouldn’t be all that good in the long run, they’re to many at Tier 5/6 already.
The high Tiers are good if we do WG magic and give them gun/armor boosts but people will complain about that and stuff. I’m also surprised you didn’t down Tier the Ho-Ri tanks and put the STT-1 at Tier 10 since it uses the same gun on the STB-1 so we know it actually has good Pen Values so we don’t have to make fake guns/shells and Swedes prove high tier low caliber TD’s work. still good list and good read
Also Trivia, KongZong was working on the Japanese TD line awhile back sometime early 2016 before it mysteriously disappeared. it was believed that the TD line was passed onto WarGaming for unknown reasons or was shelved, we’ll never know what happened to it.
Whats this 105 mm chi-ha?
sorry this is 2 months late
But here’s a link to a Warthunder page that contains the image and some details of the vehicle, kikiri’s post will have all the details.
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/366314-japanese-spgs/&page=2
oh that vehicle is fake.
that is an interesting line. I like all the work you did. 🙂
Hey, thats very similar to my Jap TD line :^)
The only difference is that in my later version there is Na-To I instead of Ho-Ro, which is very similar vehicle to Na-To II but has gun mounted directly on the casemate, not on pseudo turret.
Ho-Ro was SPG, and if it comes to WoT, it should be arty. I mean, SU-152 is TD in-game, but Ho-Ro is conceptually very, very similar vehicle to Sturmpanzer II, which is in-game as tier 4 arty.
i think the tir 10 should be called the HO-RI SHIT
only one thing I dont like:
300 pen on a tier 9 and probably more on the tier 10 makes amour useless. I dont like the Strv tanks for the same reason.
Well these tanks are fairly big and their armor is not that good not to mention their alpha, they need high pen to be competitive.
Well, the Ho-Ro derp concept for Tier 5 is very similar to the S35 SCA and its evil 105mm. Will depend heavily on gun arc and gun performance to either make or break it.
A derpy O-I 15cm Type 96 cannon would likely break it. Plus playing a super derp TD at Tier 5 would be more pain than it’s worth it due to the inaccuracies.
The O-I’s 10cm Type 92 cannon@175mm pen is perfect however and fits the Japanese line design that favors high-pen guns. That’s assuming you give it a decent arc and depression. Then I wouldn’t mind setting a garage space for an S35 CA twin 😀
interesting post, and these things seem more authentic compared to the “made in china” TDs
Your trees are better then shit gamings
could the Japanese light tank line be extended to tier 10?
Well they have one light tank project to my knowledge and it can be splitted into 4 tanks in total but i have little info on these variants and i dont know if they will differ enough to fill the tiers 7-10.
It might be possible but its pretty hard and you most likely have to use M24 and M41 to fill some tiers in order to even hope of completing a full LT line.
M24 will surely have to be used unless they find new projects but there is a tier 7 project.
thats a good idea, much better than the fake chinese td line
tier 3 has some epic gun depression
Hey Blockhaj, just wanted to say very cool TD line you have there, and I have a question: is there an alternative TD for tier 5 instead of the Ho-Ro?
Thanks again for the interesting article, and thanks for your time 🙂
There are alternatives but i dont want to ho-ro to end up as an arty vehicle nor do i want japan to have an arty line. I might try to make 2 td lines if i find more info and then it can be tier 6.
Japanese Sturmtiger as premium?
Nah
Nice information presented. Sounds like a viable line.
Just want to clarify a couple of things. To my knowledge, the Ho-Ri I was to be / was equipped with the Experimental 105mm cannon. However, the Ka-To was equipped with the improved Type 5 105mm cannon and the production model Ho-Ri III was to be equipped with the same cannon, with a shell capable of penetrating 200mm’s @ 1,000m (angle unspecified afaik). The prototype Ho-Ri III had 75mm’s of slopped front hull armor. The production model may / could have had 120mm’s of slopped front armor, but that would’ve cut the top speed of the tank by half and put a lot of stress on the chassis & engine (which wouldn’t matter in WoT). The production model Ho-Ri III could have 1 engine upgrade and maybe a suspension upgrade, despite being a tier X tank.
Oh, and don’t forget the Type 4 Ho-To. A Ha-Go converted to be a TD / SPG with an open casemate and armed with a short 120mm Howitzer.
150mm pen in T8 pp?
Ffs more useless crap, only designed to make people use gold ammo
150 mm at 1000 meters. Now take a wild guess what pen it would have at 50 m.
If the production model Ho-Ri III is modeled, then the Type 5 105mm cannon can be the gun upgrade over the Experimental 105mm and the Type 5’s APHE shell had 200mm’s of pen @ 1km @ 90°.
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love how this is actually being implemented in a similar way. OF course with out the low tier tanks, as they made every tech tree lighter.