Hello,
I’ve made a spreadsheet comparing the Tiger II P statistics to another tier 7 Heavies, hope it helps:
Let me know if you would like anything else.
Tiger II P Statistic Comparison
Portuguese Armada
100 User(s) Online
Join Server
Hello,
I’ve made a spreadsheet comparing the Tiger II P statistics to another tier 7 Heavies, hope it helps:
Let me know if you would like anything else.
Although the tiger I L/56 is some sort of placeholder, it would make a better premium than the tiger II P. Please let this be a German heavy overhaul and not another terrible move by WG.
Honestly learning towards placeholder for a German HT line overhaul considering the Mammunt and Mauschen are back in the supertest
I’d be all in favour of the Tiger I & II being put back a tier – but then you’d need to change the Tiger (P) too, and all the related TDs, etc…
(That was me, at work, I can comment but I can’t log in). And once you rebalance the Jagdtiger, what happens to the Premium Jagdtiger 8.8cm…?
I think rebalancing the jagtigers would cause more problems than solutions. Comparing a tier 7 tiger II to a tier 9 jagdtiger is like comparing a T29 to a T30 or even the pz iv h to the (very modiffied) waffentragger pz iv at tier 9.
As for the Tiger P, I don’t think moving a tank like that to tier 7 would be a good idea without heavily reducing the 200mm armor to 100mm or even a generous 150mm which would not put the tank as such a problem to the O-I at tier 6 because of the large quapola. A tier 7 Tiger P with 200 mm of armor should still remain at tier 7 as well as a relative tier 6 and 7 tiger I (a german ht no iv and the same tiger with its historically innaccurate long 88) series with an optional line of the Tiger II at tier 7 just to keep tier shifting to a minimum and still keeping historical accuracies somewhat alive and minimizing immediate balancing problems. It is possible but requires work, maybe on par with a third to half the effort required of the new swedish line (mind you that is a lot of work) as well as buffing the Tiger II at tier 8(maybe a wider gun mantlet and external tracks on the hull to buff bas armor values) once they have a historically accurate tiger II established at tier 7 as a base line.
All good and done on paper, wished I had a way of testing my proposal out haha. But I’m sure this sounds messy, not sure how to upload a sketch of what the tree might look like here.
Yay, another premium that shits on the regular tanks.
Because why would Tiger P need a buff.
Tiger P isn’t half bad, problem is the T29 sets the tier 7 heavy bar really high and the armor sets unrealistic expectations. Just look at the AMX M4 45, Black Prince, Tiger I, or VK 45.03 and it will remind you of the better aspects of the Tiger P. Arguably I wish the turret were more reliably bouncy instead of the weird patchwork mantlet but I believe only the T29 and BP have a solid turret at tier 7. The tank does have a lot of hit points so it does last longer most other heavies unless you are trying to bounce 8’s and 9’s which only the T29 can reliably do.
I’ve played all of tier 7 heavies and if it wasn’t for the BP then the Tiger P would be the biggest trash. It’s pre-buff Tiger with shit mobility, shit aiming stats and armor that works only against retards. With the exception of M4 and BP all other tier 7 heavies are eons ahead of this junk.
played them all myself haha, I’m just defending the Tiger P because I have a +60% win rate in it so it’s probably proof that everyone’s mileage will vary. Chances are you’ve played the Tiger P more recently than me so maybe power creep has hurt it a lot more than I remember.
The mobility is bad, that is undeniable. You also forgot about the O-Ni and soon to be at the lowest on the list, the Tiger II P.
Aim time is not great but most other heavies have +2.9 sec aim time (AMX,IS, KV-3, IS-2, O-Ni) and the only tier 7 heavy that does 240 alpha with faster than 2.7 sec aim time is the VK 45.03. The T29 just has a broken aim time of 2.3 sec which is fun to abuse.
As for armor, I’ve found that it is pretty bad and even worse in a brawl but that’s why you play pubs on weekends. Once again you do have the most accurate and best aim time gun for a 240 alpha tier 7 heavy of 2.7 sec at .34 (T29 has .41; IS, IS-2, KV-3 has .46, O-Ni has.56, AMX has .43 (with 105 or .36 with 90) etc). The armor is generally still better than the VK45.03, IS, IS-2, Tiger I, and AMX M4 45 (about half the tier 7 heavies) and is not as limiting as the O-Ni and BP so only the KV-3 and T29 have better armor for better mobility and are no where near as accurate with their guns.
You can swear all you like and I can throw numbers straight back at you all you like 🙂
Ah right, username is Bajicoy on the NA server if you want to check my stats, I’m above average but not a unicorn. Feel free to pm me and say you’re from this blog if you need to confirm ^^
vk4502p, tiger 1 L 56, where is the pic??? i have never seen that tanks…. 🙁
but, tiger 2 p its look more very good for tier 7 HT….. 🙂
No it looks average. It looks good next to the utter garbage that is known as the German heavies (until tier 9).
The VK45.02P is the current tier 9 VK45.02b but with the historical armor and armament. It was first put onto supertest when they were looking to replace the VKa and VKb with the Mammunt and Mauschen to make the line more historical
why this image is too big. omg i cant read because of huge…
post bigger images!
*Just my thoughts on how things should be, and many other tanks being balanced to new tiers are not including meaning that this is just a small portion of how I would balance. *
Tiger II should be around tier 7, as the O-Ni has actually more turret armor, and hull armor in certain places (O-Ni can actually be more effective in a Tier 8 battle than the actual Tiger I, but player does impact the performance greatly). Weakest armor on O-Ni: 201mm. Tiger II: 183. Now for the hulls respectively. O-Ni UFP and LFP 220-190-175 depending on where. 175 being mini turret weakspots and UPF 203 and LFP 175 or 157 depending on hight of the tank shooting at the lower plate. Give the Tiger II the historical 88, the Tiger I the shorter 88, and place II at 7 and I at perhaps either 5 or 6.
The IS and KV-3 should be moved to tier 6 and KV-85 to have only 85mm guns to match tier 5. Because if the IS has the same pen as the previous tier 6… that’s not good. Tier 3-4 should be modified so that most tanks won’t meet tier 6 because if Tiger I is tier 5, Pz 38t and BT-7 should not meet Tiger. Panther and can be tier 6, but Panther only having historical 75. With the Tiger and T-34-85, a tier 5 heavy fighting a tier 6 medium should be balanced.
It’s one of a few changes that could make the game bit more historical, and understand that WG wants to keep this an arcade style game but at least some historical accuracy would be nice.
agreed
panther 1 is ”already” in tier 6, the VK 30.02M works just fine
Tiger 1 is ”already” in tier 6 as JAP heavy tank 6, works just fine
and now this….
WG really is after us german-tank-lovers….
IS and KV-3 were fairly late war developments from the russians, the KV-85 and T-150 already meet those relevant goals as you said at tier 6. The thing about the IS at tier 7 is that it is only slower than an AMX M4 45 so it is a medium heavy hybrid with a great deal of flanking and wolf packing in mind. The KV-3 meanwhile is a side scrapping beast and a fine predecessor of the KV-4, it would be weird to have a KV3.5 take its place at tier 7.
As for the O-Ni, I think you got the armor values wrong and gave the O-Ho’s armor values at tier 8. The O-Ni is fine at tier 7 because an alternative tier 7 heavy would be silly if you had a third O-I replace it or something more comical. The O-Ni is a low dpm vehicle designed to encourage players to work together to bring it down. That’s why its tracks and sides are so fragile and it needs the 175 mm of armor on its front.
Historically, the Tiger II and the IS were competitors but the IS-3 was also designed to compete against the Tiger II so why not have a Tiger II both at tier 7 and 8 just layer the hull of the tiger II at tier 8 with external tracks to better establish itself. A Tiger I with a long 88 can remain at tier 7 to contrast a tier 7 tiger II with respective focuses on firepower and armor and creating a new tier 6 tiger I is fine but there is no rush because it would just be a clone of the tier 6 HT No. VI.
You have some very interesting ideas, was fun to read and respond to them 🙂
With the O-Ni armor values I was giving their “effective” values. It is 175 all on the front, but angles means it’s going to be somewhat more effective. The turret checks are about 240-250, and can bounce tier 9 guns. I have the O-Ni myself, and do agree that it’s supposed encourage players to work together to take it down, and I personally like to use it to shield my teammates due to the 1550 HP, which I thinks is the same as the T32.
Every tier 7 tank up here has base values (which is nice) except the new tank you are trying to compare with them, cuz it is very ”hard” to put base values without tanks gg, ej ?
I can’t do it for you, np:
———-
Terrain resistance: 1/1.2/2.3
Radio range: 710 m
———-
RoF: 6.67
Reload: 9
Accuracy: 0.34
Aim time: 2.3
Interesting, so the Tiger II P is going to have the worst dpm of any tier 7 heavy and will be out accelerated by a black prince. At least they had the curteousy to give it a good aim time. We’re essentially looking at a tier 7 maus.
Slap in the face for VK 45.03 owners! +50% hull armor, +85% turret armor and 100HP more health, at the cost of only a little DPM….. They can’t be serious about releasing this. I think these stats are ment as a buff for the VK 45.03, they named it wrong.
there is the possibility that someone in WG screwed up. With that name, Tiger II P, I was expecting to see the stock Tiger II turret, the same one as on the VK 4503, which I think was manufactured by Porshe, so who knows, maybe we see that. And that would be…well honestly very uncreative, but WG lameness with all these new prems can’t surprise me anymore…that would be a balanced tank, worse gun than the VK 4503, a little slower with a worse traverse, but with a superstronk frontal hull (for tier 7) and a turret (that can troll), but can be pened with a tier 5 medium with a some aiming
The highest pen for a tier 5 medium is 135 or something. You need 150mm base pen to get through the tier 8 quapola if you hit it square on, maybe there was a leaked armor model that I missed? The name is probably place holder since it is on the super test but you are right that porsche turrets started off with the tiger II’s stock turret, perhaps this is the fantasy of upgrading those porsche tanks with the better turret. My biggest problem with the VK 4503 was that its turret was worse than a Tiger I.
I think you are exagerrating oopsa, the vk 45.03 has 8 more degrees of hull traverse, better power to weight and terrain ressistances without any comparison of the gun handling of either tanks. Armor wise you have the Tiger II P>Tiger P>Vk 45.03>Tiger I; Mobility wise you have Vk 45.03>Tiger I>Tiger P>Tiger II P; and fire power wise you have Tiger I>Vk 45.03>Tiger P>Tiger II P. I can kind of see what the devs were aiming for, just happy this isn’t a russian captured tiger II so we’ll just have to be patient. Hopefully this will be an optional tank path in the german heavy line if new players want to have fun with a Tiger II against it’s realistic counterpart the IS. Sorry for aggressively countering your sarcasm btw, just bored. 🙂
that looks like a bad compression to me.. i looks like on the tiger 2 P the stats are with more than 100% crews.. the rest are at 100% crews .. so it make the new tiger 2 look better
All are 100%
i’d put money on those stats being taken from tank inspector which means the crew is more than 100%
load up the Tiger 1 in tank inspector and you’ll find the specs are much better than what you have listed in this spread sheet
Because we all know tank inspector is always 100% correct. Haha, jk. You have a fair point Worldoftanksgaming but to be fair, these are probably the statistics given for the tank when leaked and since the test server is always subject to change, you cannot assume any value is written in stone. Even if the values are wrong, they are not so different to miss the essential point that the Tiger II P will have the worst dpm of any tier 7 heavy and possibly worse mobillity than the black prince unless the Tiger II P can go down a slight gradient. This is all to offset that the tank will have some outstanding armor. Mind you not as good as the turrets of the T29 or BP and not as good as the side armor of a KV-3 or BP but the curious balance of a very reliable, accurate gun and good view range will make this an interesting choice of a tank over the nimbler Tiger P or the DPM god that is the Tiger I. Kind of like a tier 7 Lowe except better tier for tier armor.