US Light Line Rework: How It Could Look

Note: This is not anything official, merely my own thoughts on the matter given what we know so far. Do not take any of this as being official or from Wargaming.

As of now, we know several things about the upcoming light tank changes, namely that the existing tier 8 light tanks are being bumped up to tier 9 (with the exception of the Chinese who are getting a new tier 9 light tank), that new tier 10 light tanks are being added, and that given that aside from the Chinese light line remaining unchanged, the other lines are going to need to be changed in some fashion, both with new vehicles other than the tier 10, as well as with existing tanks being bumped up a tier.

This isn’t much to go on in most cases, as while there are candidates that could be added to some light lines, like say the French getting the ELC EVEN or the AMX-13/Chaffee hybrid and most of the tanks bumped up a tier, for others it’s a different story. We can infer something though from the Chinese light line staying the same, namely that the US M5 Stuart isn’t going anywhere. It is undeniably weaker than its Chinese counterpart, and I’d like to think that not even Wargaming would be dumb enough to dumb enough to bump it up to tier 5 while leaving the more powerful Chinese version a tier 4.

We do have some other information to go on though, although i daresay it’s probably been overlooked by some people. Currently, there are two premium tier 7 US lights in supertest that are also in the live client as well, the T92 Light Tank, and the T71 CMCD. The T92 Light Tank was last brought up online in September of 2016, having been re-added to the game (it existed long ago in the files before being removed for several years), while the T71 CMCD was forgotten about for even longer, having last been brought up in April of 2016. But this does give us something to work with.

Since the two vehicles are both tier 7s, we can conclude that all US lights at tiers 7 and 8 are going to be bumped up a tier. This allows for the T92 Light Tank to be slotted in between the T37 Light Tank and the M41 Walker Bulldog, and the T71 CMCD to be slotted in between the T21 and the T71. Before we get into the tier 6 lights and the nerf hammer that the T37 will get, I will say that yes, the T92 Light Tank, much like the T71, was designed to replace the M41 in service. So it’s technically newer than the vehicle it precedes. This is nothing new for Wargaming, as the tier 10 German light, the Rheinmetall Spähpanzer 57, is older than the RU 251, the UDES 03 is newer than the Strv 103 by a decade or so, etc. So don’t expect this to phase Wargaming in any way.

Anyway, the tier 6 T37 is going to need some nerfs, and there is a way to do that. Historically, the T37 Phase I used the 76mm T94, which is one of the grinding guns on the T37. The T37 Phase II used the 76mm T91 (identical to the 76mm T185), and it’s this Phase II configuration that was renamed T41. (In fact, the Phase III version is where the M41 Walker Bulldog gets its autoloader from, although this version was canceled because of the Korean War) So the 76mm T91 would then become a grinding gun (most likely keeping its current stats) on the T92 Light Tank, while the T37 would feature the 76mm T94 as its top cannon.

When it comes to the T21 Light, the vehicle is already far behind its T37 brother at tier 6, so it really doesn’t need any nerfs to work as a tier 6. I would also expect the new T71 at tier 8 to perform fine with only a few minor tweaks to what it is now.

So these new light lines would look as follows:


This brings up two questions then, what about the medium/heavy line? And what can be done about the top tiers for the T71 light tank line. The answer to the first is simple, either the T69 is going to come off of the T92 Light and/or the T71 CMCD, or, and there is a historical link to this, the T69 can come sideways off of the M41 Walker Bulldog. The T69 is based on the T42 Medium Tank, which in turn was based on the T41 Light Tank, so this kind of connection is historical.

The answer to the second question, is also surprisingly easy. For tier 9, Detroit Arsenal made a model of a 90mm armed version of the T71, from early on in the project’s life before the 76mm was standardized:


This features an oscillating turret just like the normal Detroit Arsenal T71, and would be comparable to the AMX-13 90. For tier 10, there’s this thing:


This is the TMG, and is armed with a 105mm cannon, also in an oscillating turret, on a hull very similar in shape and size to the T71 projects. The TMG was a Cadillac proposal from 1955, and was part of a much larger proposal for multiple different light tanks using both conventional and oscillating turrets. The very similar TME had a version with an oscillating turret and a 90mm cannon as well, so if Wargaming wants the tier 10 to have two gun options, this would work too.

So the new line would look as follows:


So there you have it, my speculation on how the new US light lines are going to look sometime in the near future, as well as how to finish off the “autoloader” US light line with new vehicles. Thoughts, comments?


Sheridan: A History of the American Light Tank, Volume 2 – R.P. Hunnicutt

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US Light Line Rework: How It Could Look

47 thoughts on “US Light Line Rework: How It Could Look

  1. Well, i dont particularly mind the T71s and T92 being in oposing lines, but here are 2 small issues for consideration

    From a historical stand point they were comdesigns to replace the M41 Walker Bulldog but were cancaled in favor of the XM551 Sheridan

    From the techtree standpoint its a bit more awkward going from the T71 CMCD to the T69 as standard turret with single shot gun to oscillating turret wit autoloader compared to the T71 DA we currently have at tier 7 to to the T69

      1. Life_In_Black says:

        In that case, both tier 8 lights, the M41 and the T71 DA, could lead sideways to the T69. Wouldn’t be the first time such a connection was in the game.

      2. And while I’m not a fan of having the planned successor for a tank be the predecessor… i guess it’s not such an issue considering the UDES 0.3 was designed after the Strv 103b was built

      3. Life_In_Black says:

        The reason I think they went for the UDES 03 over say the Strv S1, is because the UDES 03 has a very small amount of gun traverse, so it kind of gives players some room to get used to the siege mode mechanic without being 100% dependent on it. In some other situations though, having an older vehicle come after a newer one is unavoidable, since the newer vehicle just isn’t as good. I’m personally ok with some stuff like this, as long as it doesn’t get too out of hand.

  2. This is something I like to see for all of the light line transitions. But my question is will the 71 line get changed? Personally going m7, t21, t71, and back to the t69 med is weird to me. I almost wanna see the t21 fill the gap for the full light line with a t71 sub line. Have the mediums and t57 move down into current med/heavy line. Instead of a full light and mixed light/med.

      1. Life_In_Black says:

        Honestly, the entire US tech tree is in bad need of a rework. For instance, the T69 and T54E1 both could be bumped up a tier with appropriate buffs. The 90mm cannon on the T69 is the same cannon on the M56 Scorpion, thus should be performing way better. Likewise, the T54E1’s 105mm T140 should have penetration comparable to that of the 105mm L7. This frees up the T57 Heavy to come after the M103, since it shares the same hull. The T110E5 could be the tier 10 for its own heavy line, coming after the T29 and T30, etc. Not to mention the medium lines needing to be badly overhauled, as the M60A1 should be the US tier 10. The T42 medium could also be a tier 8 before a tier 9 T69, and to be honest, there are about a dozen or two tier 9 and 10 US medium candidates that would all work quite nicely depending on how they’re tiered. The problem is though, that this not only requires time, money, and effort on Wargaming’s part, but it is also almost impossible to do given how many useful tanks were squandered for pointless premiums. We could have a US tech tree with at least two or three heavy branches, two or three medium branches (four or five, if we have new branches start at tier 9 and 10 off of the few tier 8 mediums), and two or three TD branches, a turreted one, a heavily armored one, and possibly a lightly armored one (think M56 Scorpion style branch), but it will never happen.

    1. While it would be possible to split the T57 line off the current medium line it would need the introduction of the T42 medium tank at tier 7 to lead into the T69 as the T69 is a variant of the T42…. the issue with this is that the T42 has a 90mm gun. Now, there are tanks at tier 7 with a 90mm gun but they’re all HTs and TDs. A 90mm gun on a medium tank might be a bit much… but like I said, it is indeed possible

      1. Life_In_Black says:

        The T20 gets a 90mm gun at tier 7, the T-34/100 gets a 100mm cannon, and the Leo gets a 105mm cannon. So it is doable. But see my post above, the US 90mm guns are such that the T42, T69, and T54E1 could sit comfortably at tiers 8, 9, and 10.

      2. Here’s a rework for the most part of the US line based on what you mentioned to Hemihaynes:

        I’m not too knowledgeable in US tanks so I can’t just add in new lines anywhere I want but I tried to improve historical accuracy to it where I could

        -Removed T28 Prototype and T110E4
        -T25/2 changed to T25E1 #13
        – Turned turreted fake turreted TD line into a second Medium line
        – Renamed T25 AT to T23 AT
        – Added Tier 8 T42
        – Extended both LT lines out to tier 10
        – T30 returns to being a HT
        – T30 builds into T110E5
        – M103 builds into T57
        -T110E3 correctly named T110E4
        – T28 changed to T95 Early Prototype

        I remember hearing back in about 2015 that the there was a “T95 Early Prototype” design found and was to replace the T28. Was quoted to have been similar to the current T28.

        Personally I would like to return the T34 to being a tier 9 HT and have the T30 back at tier 10. The T95 or T96 would then build into the T110E5

      3. Type 319 Sharpedo says:

        I’d also like to see the T110E5 have its hull correctly remodeled and the cupola nerfed. It’s not a superheavy tank so it should not be in the frontlines. WG said they’d fix it but never did. This is no surprise, especially from one of the more decrepit and poorly developed nations in the world. (Their country is practically built on lies and failure! Even the US isn’t as bad as they are, and we’re pretty bad compared to others.)

      4. I can agree to that. Won’t comment on the politics of other countries, mainly since I’m in Australia and don’t particularly concern myself with the issues of other countries

      5. Life_In_Black says:

        Something along these lines for a complete rework of the US tech tree:

        The T95 LT is a separation of the current T95 into a tier 9 with the 105mm and the 120mm that was considered (so the 155mm T7 is removed), while the tier 10 version is with the historically considered 155mm Long Tom. Also, the M6 Improved is basically something along the lines of the M6A2E1, or alternately, an M6 with an M26 turret, which was historically considered. As for the T110E3, it should have much thinner armor than it currently does, but if that doesn’t work, then the T4 105mm and M40 105mm T254 can be pushed back (or one can be removed to become a premium), and the T79 155mm can be put in at tier 10. So even then, there are options.

      6. looks like a nice proposal. Will be interesting to see how they go with it. Personally I feel a US rework is needed more then a German rework… can’t say I’m happy with how they are planning to change it but that’s for another time

      7. Here’s my on revision of what your supplied:

        Changes of note:
        – Added second turreted Artillery line as the M53/M55 doesn’t fit in the current line
        – Added the “Astron” to tier 8 as it eventually developed into the T95 project
        – M42 branches off Pershing then builds into T69
        – Forgone the 90mm M18 and dropped all tanks in that line down a tier
        – XM66D can have the proposed/planned 105mm gun
        – Added MBT-70 at tier 10 at the end of the line*
        – Renamed T110E3 to historical T110E4
        – T96 builds off Astron instead of T29/T32

        *Misconceptions about the MBT-70: The Armor and the gun
        The gun is really just an improved 152mm that the Sheridan we are getting has. It’s a riffled gun that fires conventional ammo with the same keyslot for missiles. People think it’s a smoothbore because the German version mounts a 120mm smoothbore

        The armor is another one. People think it’s a lot thicker then it is because of a drawing that shows it with multiple thicknesses on the frontal armor when it’s really just 2 thickness with an empty space between. The thickness that it actually is is:

        LFP: 80mm @47 deg = 117mm eff
        UFP: 140mm @ 60 deg = 280mm eff
        Side: 70mm
        Rear: 40mm

        Front: 115mm @ 53 deg = 191mm eff
        Side: 135mm @ 30 deg = 156mm eff
        Rear: 35mm @ 27 deg = 39mm eff

        Perfectly acceptable for a tier 10 MT

      8. Iron says:

        Your thoughts about all these changes could give us a nicer, and much more logical Tech tree. Sadly, I think WG won’t change again the T34 and t30 status.. So maybe we could at least have the T96 and the T110E5 after the T29?

        And i found the Priory_of_Sion study on the US TD lines (wich you may already know: ) really interresting and sensible. So IMO we should stick to it. Also, we won’t get the T28 HTC back, so the “T95 Early Prototype” your talking about DeadArashi, would be a good solution to fill the blank.

        So here is how it would look like:

        I also put the T69 and T54E1 after the T42 to have a full med line since the T95Es are compromised for the moment.. (but maybe we can hope a future Vk 72.01k’s fate if they do it for the German Heavies? 🙂 )

        I tried to make the most historical and logical connections between each branches as well…

      9. The thing to note though is that while my suggestion sees premium status tanks become regulars (most at a tier higher or lower then they currently are) players would maintain them in their current premium state while also getting a new regular tank

      10. Iron says:

        Your thoughts about all these changes could give us a nicer, and much more logical Tech tree. Sadly, I think WG won’t change again the T34 and t30 status.. So maybe we could at least have the T96 and the T110E5 after the T29?
        And i found the Priory_of_Sion study on the US TD lines (wich you may already know: ) really interresting and sensible. So IMO we should stick to it. Also, we won’t get the T28 HTC back, so the “T95 Early Prototype” your talking about DeadArashi, would be a good solution to fill the blank.
        So here is how it would look like:
        I also put the T69 and T54E1 after the T42 to have a full med line since the T95Es are compromised for the moment.. (but maybe we can hope a future Vk 72.01k’s fate if they do it for the German Heavies? 🙂 )
        I tried to make the most historical and logical connections between each branches as well…

    2. Given that WG hasnt announced anything regarding the T21 or T71 (in the form of a potential tier 9 and 10) and that they arent full light tank lines unlike the other 5 lines being extended, it is unlikely that the T21 and T71 will be touched at all. If they are, it is likely that they will remain in the place and receive proper nerfs in order to lose their scout MM. I very much doubt that either the T21 or T71 will be moved around.

      I do think we are going to see either the T71 CMCD or T92 at tier 7 before the Bulldog at tier 8, as the Bulldog has always overperformed for its current tier. While I like the symmetry of having both T71s in the tech tree at tier 7, either of the two unreleased tier 7 US LTs could fit there

      1. Life_In_Black says:

        We also haven’t seen anything yet about what’s happening to the rest of the lines, yet we know changes are coming. So your argument that because we haven’t heard anything nothing will happen, isn’t a very good one.

      2. (Im replying to myself… because I cant seem to reply directly to you, LiB… I love how every comment system handles replies differently…)

        No we havent… but first off… if the T71 line were getting changed around, we would have, at the very least, seen whatever potential tier 10 would cap off the line. It would have been announced with every other tier 10 at WG Fest, with the other 5 lines.. That alone makes me think that those two tanks wont undergo major changes (if any at all). We also havent seen a tier 9 for that line. Given that they also announced a brand new Chinese tier 9 light in this most recent info dump… this again, to me, suggests that we wont be seeing anything (major or otherwise) happen to the T71 line, as it too would have been announced alongside the other 5.

        Yes… we havent seen anything about whats going to happen to the rest of the 5 dedicated LT lines. But we know they will undergo changes because they are getting tier 10s, and 4 of them have had their tier 8 tanks moved to tier 9, necessitating that either new tanks be used to fill vacant spots, and/or current tanks be bumped up to fill those spots. The T71 line is both not a dedicated LT line and is a complete line, with a tier 10 at the top.

        And if we’re talking about arguments that arent very good lets start with the two unreleased tier 7 light tanks exist so both lines must be getting changed argument. (Quote: “Since the two vehicles are both tier 7s, we can conclude that all US lights at tiers 7 and 8 are going to be bumped up a tier.”) Thats not very good reasoning. Quite frankly its terrible reasoning, as their existence at tier 7 doesnt mean they will be used at all. Or it could mean that one becomes a premium and the other becomes a tech tree tank. Youve taken the most extreme jump possible in regards to those two tanks. Its a conclusion not even supported by any sort of precedent, let alone fact.

        Its more likely (given WGs track record for “squandering tanks on useless premiums” (to paraphrase you)) that one is going to become a premium and the other fill a vacant spot on the US dedicated LT line. Im not averse to either one becoming the tech tree tank and the other becoming a premium, I just like the symmetry of both T71s being in the tech tree. I also think, given the rather unique looks of the T92, it would be a more natural choice for a premium vehicle, which is why I tend to think that the CMCD will become a tech tree vehicle.

        This is sort of drastic change to an other wise complete line is incredibly unlikely to happen, given the current information we have. If it were we would have, at the very least, a tier 9 and 10 tank for that line by now.

      3. Life_In_Black says:

        And again, you haven’t read anything it seems. A tier 9 and 10 being added to the line is speculation on my part, which I said as such. What amuses me is you keep insisting nothing will happen to the T71 as if that’s fact, but why on earth would Wargaming need to announce anything happening to it if it was getting bumped up a tier? A tier 9 and 10 aren’t happening soon, and your argument about it being a complete line doesn’t change the fact that it is in fact still a tier 7 light tank. I don’t get how you keep forgetting that little fact, that it is still a light tank.. But given how out of whack your sense of balance is, I’m not surprised you want the T71 to remain as a normal tier 7, then you get a blatantly overpowered vehicle to play.

      4. I have. I’ve read every thing you’ve written… but you seem to not read what I write.

        You’ve speculated that the T71 line will be changed. I’m telling you, given that WG had announced nothing of its high tiers, it wont be. If it was going to be we would have a tier 9 and a tier 10 for that line.

        Ive also not insisted that merely nothing will happen to the T21 and T71. What I have suggested is two possibilities:

        1. Nothing happens. The T21 and T71 stay as they are, where they are, complete with scout MM.


        2. The T21 and T71 lose scout MM and are nerfed accordingly, and remain in their current positions.

        And more over, Ive not insisted that either of those possibilities is more likely to happen than the other. Just that they exist as possibilities that are more likely than your idea.

        Its a light tank. But what does that matter? This isn’t a complete light tank rework we are talking about here. This is WG extending the 5 dedicated light tank lines to tier 10. They’ve made no mention of EVERY light tank being changed. Christ man, that would have been in the announcement at WG Fest. It wouldnt have just been the 5 top tier lights announcing that those lines were getting tier 10s (and by extension having the rest of the line changed some). Youve jumped from 5 new tier 10 light tanks to “OMG THEYRE CHANGING EVERY LIGHT TANK!” when theres no indication that that is going to happen.

        You can call my sense of balance in this game out of whack, but I dont feel as if you have ANY understanding of balance in this game, let alone game balance in general. The fact that you think the T71 is overpowered is fucking hilarious… The T71 isnt even close to being overpowered. You see overpowered tanks everywhere, its a wonder you even try to play this game since you think its so unbalanced.

      5. Life_In_Black says:

        So, all light tanks are getting changed to normal matchmaking in an attempt to fix the matchmaker, yet you seem to think the T21 and T71 are going to stay the same with scout matchmaking even though….scout matchmaking isn’t going to exist anymore…..words fail me at your complete lack of understanding anything in regards to this game.

  3. Iron says:

    Really great job !
    Btw, like the m41 for It’s actual tier, i find the chaffee and the t37 quite OP too.

    And maybe WG won’t let a hyped prem like the t92 being a regular tank..

    So, what about putting the chaffee and the t37 (maybe giving the 76mm t91 gun is “real” 175 mm pen? But without autoloader for sure..) a tier higher too, having the M7 before the chaffee (wich is a really historical transition), connecting also to the t21.

    Like this we avoid the issue of having a “successor preceding…”, and for WG we don’t “steal” them a good Premium. IMO, the t92 could a fantastic t8 prem with the proper camo rate !

    And lastly, the “autoloader” top tiers you suggest are really really interesting ! There is so many amazing Projects resulting from this QUESTION Mark 3 Conference!

    1. Iron says:

      *the t92 could BE a fantastic t8 prem*

      And i also totally agree with your thoughts on the m5 stuart. Itself, in my mind, connecting obviously to the M7 (wich is very historical once again..)

  4. Renarde_Martel says:

    T71 CMCD may be a good candidate for being slotted into the tree, but honestly I simply see it happening that T37 and T21 get bumped up a tier with no changes. Probably Chaffee as well.

    Why? Because the up-tiering comes with MM nerfs so nothing really changes. Now, you might say ‘but the tier 8 scouts get buffed/nerfed’… well, that’s rebalancing to give them a more specific role. In most cases no real hard stats are changing (T49 derp removal I consider a hard stat change, but AMX clip reduction is a soft stat rebalance IMO), and the changes are not really radical.

    Almost every single LT currently in the game can be uptiered and given normal MM without it affecting their performance, because their current MM already effectively makes them tanks of a tier higher.
    The only exception is the tier 4 scouts which do see their own tier. Especially the mentioned M5 Stuart would get nerfed by an uptiering and MM adjustment as it’s gun is already shit in tier 4. I expect them to either get buffed, or to see new vehicles inserted at tier /5/ rather than tier 7.

    Also, either T71 CMCD or T92 will likely be the next Grand Finals tank. Because those are coming up in not too long…

    1. Life_In_Black says:

      Because under the new matchmaking it would not see tier 9s anymore, and if it gets the same matchmaking as other classes, it would see tier 4s as well? It’s not hard to see that it would be overpowered if left unchanged at tier 6 with normal matchmaking.

  5. Anonymous says:

    I recently trained a reward female gunner for my T49 from the HT15 missions and noticed that she could be trained for the T71 CMCD when picking the tank to train to. I do not remember seeing the T92 as an option. It may have been, just don’t recall it.

  6. Txus says:

    No, I think that the T71 will be a tier8 while the T92 will be the Tier7 that one to the T21 with T71, and the CMD will simply be a premium. What is true is that the T37 has more in common with the T69 than with the T92, and also, the T71 has more in common with the Sheridan than with the T71, since both were intended to be airborne.

    1. Txus says:

      Also think, that the chafee and the T21 are the same time, both were made to replace the Stuart after the disaster of the M7, so it would be logical that both were from the same tier.

  7. metalscourge says:

    Yes this is awesome!!! Convince war gaming to fix the line before they screw up the American tech tree even more😀

  8. ndiver says:

    Interesting, but I would see something much simpler in a first step.

    Considering that we up most of the lights, we need to include a tank somewhere. The T92 has a huge problem that in the same time makes it a perfect premium: absolutely no historical secondary module. Indeed, the project was cancelled to early, not enough advantages compared to the M41, and not amphibious, leaving place to the XM551 to counter the soviet PT-76.

    However, in lower tiers, there is a tank available with several secondary modules: the M22 Locust.
    I know, it is already available as premium, but the premium can stay premium. What has the Locust, that has not the T92?
    – 2 suspensions: T9 –> M22
    – several guns: a 37mm M6 as stock gun, a shortened 37mm modified by the British shooting APCR (guns with Littlejohn adaptor), and even a smoothbore 81mm mortar
    – 2 turrets: T9 –> M22
    – one engine: Lycoming 0-435T

    To conclude, it is much easier to include the M22 Locust than to introduce in the middle of a branch a tank that has neither secondary modules, neither link to the tanks around him in the branch.

    1. ndiver says:

      Moreover, it seems illogical to place the T92 LT within the M41 branch considering that the T92 LT is the final outcome of the project named T71.
      Additionally, do not forget a project of US light tank that would be beautiful as another TX: the Astron X Weapon (despite an historical smoothbore 90mm gun).

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