Hello everyone, today we have been given an insight into the planned German Ground Forces tech tree shuffle that was announced late last year. For those of you who have not heard of this, it has been the dev teams intention to make the German Ground Forces a bit more historical, taking particular issues with the Maus, Tiger II (105), Panther II and the Flakpanzer 341. As I am sure you notice, these designs are either blueprint only, or never went beyond the prototype stage. Here is War Thunder’s official comment on these vehicles:
Panther II:
Panther II in War Thunder draws upon many historical Panther projects and developments, such as the Panther II chassis that was built but is also armed the advanced Schmalturm turret design as well as incorporating plans to mount an 8.8cm on a Panther and several other proposals such as engine improvements and IR technology. All of which are historical proposals or actually built, but not on the real Panther II. The version we have in game is not the Panther II as it historically should be. As such, with the advent of the Leopard family as well as the incoming M48A2 C in 1.91, the Panther II will be retired to a collectable vehicle for all who owned it before the update.
Flakpanzer 341 Coelian:
The Flakpanzer 341 or “Coelian” as it originally was is a German SPAAG design based on the Panther chassis. Previously it occupied the Rank V spot before switching places with the more advantageous and deadly Kugelblitz in game and has since been the Rank IV German SPAAG. Whilst the vehicle was fully designed and proposed, due to the wartime situation no full prototype or production model was ever created. Only a full scale wooden mockup of the weaponry and turret, mounted on a full metal Panther chassis was ever made of this machine. In 1.91, the Ostwind II will take its position in the research tree and the Flakpanzer 341 will become a collectable vehicle as it was never fully completed project and other late war SPAAGs already offered superior alternatives to this machine.
Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K):
Veterans of War Thunder Ground Forces will remember that the Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K) was the crown jewel of the German tree during the early stages of development. Added as a counterpart to the IS-4 at the time, this tank is based on a 1944 Krupp proposal to mount the 105mm KwK L/68 cannon on the existing Tiger II design that was rejected and never actually built. Ground forces and the German tree in particular has expanded exponentially since this tank was a necessary requirement for the German lineup and it no longer has a requirement to be within the main tree as a researchable vehicle.
Maus:
In game the Maus is really the natural equivalent of other rare vehicles like the IS-7 and E-100. Large numbers of these machines should never really be present and the role that they play is very limited. In the exact case of the Maus, its exceptionally strong armour can be a menace for lower rank ground vehicles, whilst higher rank machines with more powerful APDS, HEAT or even APFSDS have no trouble overriding the Maus’s one key advantage. The design of the tank sacrifices speed and maneuverability for this overwhelming armament and protection which outclasses almost all WW2 designs, yet becomes rather meaningless when compared to postwar designs. As such, with Update 1.91 the Maus will become a rare event collectable vehicle. Being removed from standard research and will now only be obtainable in future events and other opportunities later in the future.
The replacements:
M48A2 C:
The German Patton, this will be introduced as a method to progress to the M48A2 G A2 which is already in the game and will take the place of the Tiger II (105), it is set to be very similar to the M48 already in the American Tree armed with a 90mm cannon and will be placed at a BR of 7.7. The M48A2 G A2 will move up to rank VI with a BR of 8.3 and the DM23 shell to compensate. However, given its lack of stabilizer, it may prove interesting to play.
Ostwind II:
Probably the controversial replacement of the Flakpanzer 341, the Ostwind II comes with the same armament, but not the same survivability as the Flakpanzer 341. The history behind this vehicle is that it was developed in conjunction with the Flakpanzer 341, but unlike the Coelian, one prototype was produced and was named the 3.7cm Flakzwilling 44 auf Sfl PzKpfw IV. An order was placed for 100 of these vehicles, however, outside the single prototype, no further vehicles are known to have been produced.
Tech Tree positions:
The Inevitable Questions:
As is common with tanks being reshuffled, the questions arise of what will happen to these tanks if I: a. Have them researched and b. Don’t have them researched.
A: If you have them researched you will keep them in the main tree just like previously hidden vehicles like the Po-2 and the Gladiators
B: If you don’t have them researched, but start progress you will still be able to research them after 1.91 is implemented. If, however, you do not start research before 1.91 these vehicles will be hidden and will most likely only become available again during future events.
What are your thoughts on the Tech Tree changes? Do you think other vehicles should get the same treatment? Feel free to discuss and I shall keep you all updated on War Thunder 1.91 news that will be coming in the following weeks.
Well. I probably not getting that maus. I don’t even have a tiger 1 yet. Only at pz IV f2.
This really sucks, for people who played only to play the maus mostly
you will be able to buy it for 500$/£/€ in the near future when it gets added to the marketplace, that is the only reason why the Maus is being removed since it does not match with the others and the whole thing about balance is BS since there are plenty of tanks in the game capable of killing the Maus from the front, even tanks at the bottom of the MM spread (Maus is 7.7 and so the bottom is 6.7), in fact even at 6.3 we have the ASU-85 that has access to HEAT-FS that completely nullifies the Maus armor
What about the Panther II? i was so psyched to get it ever since unlocking the tiger 1 and now its gone…. real shame now it’s worthless
Well the Maus is a strange one, seeing as when it was introduced it was a beast on the battlefield, however as the game gets more and more modern it has started to lose its place in the game, now hiding it is probably an extreme measure, but I think the best course of action would have been to decompress the BRs and ensure it doesn’t face ATGMs which are the bane of it now. But I don’t run the game so not much I can really do haha
reply to Anonymous
the Panther II will be removed to anyone who has not unlocked it yet, but it is written that if you rush towards researching it and put at least 1 RP/XP into its research before the update you will be able to continue research after 1.91 is launched, which means it will not be removed for you
as for why it will be removed it is simply because it is not a real Panther II, a real Panther II would have the Rheinmetall Schmale Blende (narrow mantlet) turret that was like a half-way design between the original Panther turret and the famous Schamlturm
it would also only be equiped with the same 75mm cannon as the original Panther and that is why I think they should simply rework the Panther II to be like the real thing and make it BR6.0 like the Panther Ausf F and thus not needing to remove it from the game
if they do not want to model the turet given that it was not built, although I think that in this case it does not make sense not to do so, they can simply add the Panther II/Panther Ausf G hybrid the Americans completed before taking it to the US, it is the Panther II hull with a Ausf G turret
regarding the IR and such they added, clearly copying WG dspite often ridicularizing WG lack of historical accuracy, the real thing was tested on a Panther Ausf G and could be added as a modification
the Panther Ausf G was also the the model that tested the 2 prototype versions of the Schmalturm before the final design, found at Bovington, that would go into the Panther Ausf F
lastly the 88mm gun, that modification was part of the Schmalturm development which started after the Panther II was cancelled and so makes no sense being part of the Panther II, however I do not believe ever seeing any mention that the 88mm cannon was even attempted to be fitted into a Schmalturm turret, if it did it could be added as a Ausf F mit 8,8cm Kwk L/71, if it were mounted on a series production turret, or as a Ausf G mit 8,8cm Kwk L/71 if it was mounted on one of the prototypes tested on the Ausf G, but that does not seem to be the case
meanwhile some “really smart people” have begun suggesting to copy WG and add the Swiss Panzer 58 to replace the Panther II and the Panzer 61 to replace the Tiger II 10,5cm, which makes no sense, completely ignoring the Porsche’s first prototype of the Leopard program that would fit “like a glove” at BR 6.7 with the 90mm cannon, that should be the Panther II replacement, that or any other of the prototypes of the Leopard 1 and Europanzer programs not armed with the L7A3 gun
Wow rip maus
Not really a RIP, those who have it keep it, and even if you don’t just gave to play one game to get some RP towards it and you can research at your leisure
Back to WoT I guess…
To each their own 🙂
I mean, it was these more interesting vehicles that kept me grinding.
German tanks just feel different from the Russians or the Americans where it’s mostly hurr durr push forward kind of gameplay. It’s also way more satisfying when you show these Ameriboos or Ruski Bias tonks what a German tank can really do. Same goes for France, my second favorite nation.
I might stay in the game as I’ve recently started grinding the Italians which, imo, seems like a promising venture as you go down the tree. And I’m also not quite done with the Frenchies…
stupid idea getting rid the the maus bring it back it is such a well renounced tank and I would loved to have played it. The maus is a tank I think everyone could get behind maybe we could play maus mode where everyone is just in a maus. also you got rid of it because people could field more than the usual number of the tank well that just sounds like bogus to me good day sirs